Puffwagon
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Posts posted by Puffwagon
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I've had similar symptoms when an O2 sensor was on the way out. It would go extremely rich, seemingly at random.
Initially the wiring had melted which was causing an intermittent short circuit. After that was fixed I'm sure it happened again and a sensor swap got it sorted. It was a long time ago but that's the gist of it.
You should log the O2 sensor voltage to see the correlation between it and the rich condition.
It's pretty easy to swap to a known good sensor, might be worth a shot.
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That's what we're here to find, the issue. Dead cats aside, the injector data in the tune you posted doesn't look right to me. If you don't want to try my previous suggestion that's fine, it's neither here nor there to me. It's what I would do tho and if it doesn't work then I would look elsewhere.
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Eh better a dumb question than none. You need a wideband no ifs or buts. You can't dial in the high slope without it. The trims will be somewhat suitable to work out the low slope but that's about it.
I've gotta go right now but read up about the difference between a narrow band and a wide band sensor.
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32 minutes ago, alfa5252 said:
They are xspurt injectors
Xspurt only show a 1000cc injector and a 1550cc injector @ 3 bar. Neither of those adds up to 1700cc @ 4 bar. Is there a link to the injectors you bought?
Another thing that isn't normally changed is the injector multipliers, auF16649, auF0122, auF0120. These have all been changed to 1, try leaving these stock. You may have to adjust the low slope to compensate. If you're getting data related to this from an online editable spreadsheet, you'll find that these are often incorrect.
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No, make the change in the injector data. Many more things will be affected by a global change such as injector size and these need to be taken into account. The base table does not do that.
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56 minutes ago, alfa5252 said:
Yes so file posted is pretty stock
That file is far from stock. There are heaps of O2 related parameters changed that would never normally be touched when tuning a vehicle. I would revert all of that before looking further, as there are too many things changed.
That aside, you have 175 for the high slope which says you have 2200cc injectors @ 4 bar. Your low slope is 408, it should be closer to 180.
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Line pressure is what holds the clutch pack together after the shift has been made. You add line pressure if it slips while in gear, you would rarely remove line pressure.
If the shifts aren't smooth at low loads and low to medium rpm, you have too much shift pressure.
I would start by lowering shift pressures. It is fine to lower them as much as needed to get the shifts smooth again.
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Take some pressure out of the shifts so it shifts normally, then add it back in later if needed. Drop it by 10% at a time as this will get you in the ballpark after a few flashes. I found my built box would bang or thud into gear with gentle to normal driving, until I dropped a bunch of pressure out of it.
The opposite is needed for WOT, you'll have to up it like a mofo depending on how much power you're making.
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You only change the borderline knock table, the MBT table you can leave alone.
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With the timing it will pick up a certain amount of power per degree. It will keep doing that until it's close to MBT then it will start to make a bit less per degree, then more timing will do nothing.
Generally you will keep adding timing until it makes no difference, then go back to where it made the most power, or 0.5 to 1 degree less. Go up in 2 degree increments as a general rule, then fine tune it at the end. On E85 it will stop making power before it starts knocking, whatever you're seeing in the log that's removing timing is probably valve train noise.
Move the fuel to where it makes the best power. You have some dyno data already, when the fuel is fixed you'll see if it makes more or less power compared to now at various rpm points.
The stoich number refers to the fuel characteristics, not the engine. Normal petrol has a stoich value of around 14.7:1, E100 has a stoich value of 9.0:1, methanol is 6.5:1 etc. You use a bit of math to work out what stoich values various blends have. Google has heaps of info about this.
As far as changing the value in the tune goes, it's just a global multiplier which will either lean out or richen everything up, from the cold start, normal driving, wot etc. If your trims are within 2% as you say, it's as good as it ever needs to be and doesn't need to be tuned further.
There is a HP academy video on YouTube regarding E85 tuning and shows how sometimes a car wants less timing down low. It's not a huge difference but it's something you would tune for if you wanted every bit of performance possible. Gonna take a bit of effort with the Falcon as you'll have to run it up, hold the car at a rpm and load cell, make a note of the torque number on the dyno, then reflash it with different timing numbers. Have a quick look at the difference but don't spend heaps of time on it unless the dyno is free lol.
On the subject of injectors, the na reg runs less pressure then a turbo reg. It would be worth seeing if a fuel pressure change gives you enough headroom with the injectors.
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It's part of what a community is about, helping each other.
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I looked at your log and it shows you are out of injector. It could be that you're out of pump and have kept adding fuel into the SD tables which has maxed out the injectors.
Depending on which parts you have on hand will decide what you do. You should verify the fuel pressure as it will tell you whether the pump is out. If the pump is fine you need more injector, if the pump is out you need a better pump. If the problem persists after replacing a pump that is out, you need more injector.
To verify fuel pressure you can chuck a fitting into the fuel feed, if your car is all stock then perhaps between the fuel filter and the steel pipe or even in the quick connect fitting to the fuel rail. You could run the return line into a jerry can and if it stops coming out when the car is going flat out on the dyno, it's safe to say the pump is out. There are more ways to do it, that's just a couple of ideas.
Also you should be targeting around 13:1 or possibly mid 13s for na on E85, same applies to 98, you will be losing heaps of power running it into the 11s. Where it makes the most power is where you set it. You don't keep it rich for safety, that only applies to turbo cars. To keep things safe, you set the timing where it should be to prevent knock, which isn't applicable with na and E85. Even a 1000+hp turbo car will want to run around 12.3:1 on E85.
I looked at your timing curve and it is more suited to 98 octane. With E85 you can add timing until it stops making power. You might find the opposite happens at very low rpm, it might actually prefer a bit less than stock. For this reason you don't just add a global 6 degrees, although you certainly could.
Anyhow there's something to think about, check the fuel filter too/first, as they tend to block up after a couple of days when you first switch over to E85.
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Iirc stock na setup, injectors will be around 85% with afrs around high 12s/13:1.
What are the afrs on this particular car?
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The closest thing I've seen a zf trans do is shift from 1st to 4th, due to very low trans fluid
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I ain't no expert but I would run them at lower and lower pulse widths until they deviated from the linear high slope line. This is where you will place your break point and underneath that will be the low slope. These all change with voltage, pressure and temperature. You might find that using a scope will be more accurate than a injector test bench or perhaps use them together. Again not an expert but that's what springs to mind.
Have a read through this for the ford stuff http://injectordynamics.com/articles/ford-injector-characterization/
Here's another one http://injectordynamics.com/the-library/
And another one https://help.injectordynamics.com/support/solutions
Finally if you want to find the low slope for your particular vehicle, you can generally adjust the low slope number while the car is idling to find what it is. I haven't personally scoped and flowed injectors to find the actual data, for the most part you can get it close enough with some tuning practice.
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Short answer is yes to both.
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Easy way is to leave it stock with the knock sensors switched on, this handles running 91.
If you want to dial it in further you could properly tune it for 95 using knock ears etc. The issue here is the fuel on the way to WA isn't the fuel you're tuning with, so imo is a lot of effort for little return.
If you want to tune it, do a test run with the van with 95 at your various cruise speeds and see how much timing it can handle there, this will give you your best economy and heat management. The knock sensors can take care of the rest.
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When I was pushing over 600awkw through a stock trans, toward the end of it's life it would slip whilst in gear, tc would flash and it would upshift, despite being in manual mode.
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Eh we all have our moments
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Yeah man there are a couple of references to it being seconds.
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No worries
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Yours will be auF3149, "Close throttle DFSO delay time based on engine speed and load".
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You don't need to log it but if you were to log it you would look at "spark total advance".
Progressively lower numbers in the decel table will go from no decel noise, to a bit of a rumble, a bit of popping, lots of popping, a fair bit of loud banging and popping to machine gun like banging. Start by chucking 5 degrees through most of the table and see how you like it. Make 5 degree changes to see where it needs to be, then adjust it by a couple of degrees if you feel like it. You will need lower numbers at lower rpm for the same effect. You want it to return to normal around 1000rpm otherwise it will keep running lowered timing and might stall when coming to a stop.
You need to let the fuel keep flowing on decel for there to be any explosions and this is changed by adjusting "Minimum DFSO time delay seconds" to as many seconds you want the pops to last for, providing the car is decelerating of course. If you wanna decel from a couple hundred clicks then set it to 20 or 30 seconds, it doesn't really matter.
That is the basic run down and should help anyone get their car making some noise.
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Knock Sensor Information
in Falcon HOWTO Guides
Posted
Cylinder one knock level stays at zero through the whole log. Every other cylinder is showing various levels of knocks at various times.