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HOWTO: Stall up your automatic

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What parameters to enable stall up of your Falcon with an automatic

Warning. These settings will make it VERY easy to break a standard tailshaft. If you are testing this out with a standard tailshaft, use medium brake and no handbrake. If you have the handbrake on with full brakes, you may end up needing a new tailshaft! Also, you will heat up the transmission torque converter very quickly doing this, don't do it repeatedly with a standard transmission and cooler.

The first set work on BA/BF/FG MK Is. You may need the auF15789 parameter to get your MK II stalling up. For example you will need this to stall up an FGX XR6 Sprint (HAER1). This will mean you will no longer need to stall up in second gear.

Spark and Fuel Cut parameters

Under “Torque Limit” you will need to set the torque requestor (source) ratios for the Auto transmission to 0. Torque Source 1 is Transmission truncation, Torque Source 7 is Transmission Shift. The numbers are in the range 0 to 1 with 0 being no reduction and 1 full reduction.

The two tables to set here are auF0261 and auF0262:

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5a582e2e9c7a6_SparkandFuelCuttables.thumb.png.88107c0d2f47a40fa43ba5fdb76fa186.png

In this example setting torque source 7 to 0 is not a very good choice as it leads to firmer shifts (no reduction in torque on transmission gear change).

Electronic Throttle Parameters

Next the the two throttle cut tables will need to be changed. You will need to alter auF0264 (RPM Limit) and auF0265 (torque limit) under “Drive by Wire”.

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auF15789 for MK IIs that don’t stall up (FGX XR6 Sprint and others).

Under "DriveTrain/Stall up Protection and Manual Launch Control" there is a switch to stop stall up. Search for auF15789:

image.thumb.png.57c57b3b66c58c33f9726057a22d60fb.png

5a582deb4a1ee_auF15789Parameter.thumb.png.5651cc9ca6bb321580be00ee12e26f9b.png

Change the value from 1 to 0. 

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1 minute ago, DanStraffa said:

Is this only for ZF’s or BTR’s too?

(BTR 4 speed auto)

I have a BF MK2 Ute.

I believe they already stall up with no throttle limits? If not it will most likely be a different parameter in those. What are you seeing, throttle angle being pulled?

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44 minutes ago, DanStraffa said:

I haven’t tried it yet was just curious, I can stall it up to 2,300 without touching anything but it’s not like an Manual FG launch control.

No automatic vehicles have launch control.

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My Ba seems to only stall up to around 2k, while at a standstill and on the brake. 

It also wont break traction at the rears, i assume there is a torque limiting function coming into affect.

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12 minutes ago, BeerTurbo said:

My Ba seems to only stall up to around 2k, while at a standstill and on the brake. 

It also wont break traction at the rears, i assume there is a torque limiting function coming into affect.

If you log the throttle and spark what occurs?

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On 2/12/2019 at 3:09 PM, BeerTurbo said:

My Ba seems to only stall up to around 2k, while at a standstill and on the brake. 

It also wont break traction at the rears, i assume there is a torque limiting function coming into affect.

Have you changed auF2259, Torque limits for individual gears?

Also, you need to set transmission torque truncation to 0 in both spark and torque ratio tables.

BTW, how much boost are you running?

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Just asking for clarification on this? Do I set all settings in the 4 tables to "0" for a Mk1 FG or only Torque Source 7 "Transmission Shift Modulation"?

Or duplicate the settings as per the snapshots?

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1 hour ago, darcati said:

Not sure if I've asked a stupid question or no one is willing to divulge.........

Copy the tables as per the first post but keep in mind this statement below.

On 1/12/2018 at 2:27 PM, Darryl@pcmtec said:

In this example setting torque source 7 to 0 is not a very good choice as it leads to firmer shifts (no reduction in torque on transmission gear change).

Either don't change it or only change it a little bit.

 

Try tagging people with the @ symbol and then clicking/highlighting their name like this, @darcati, if you want them to be notified of your post.

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No worries.

I don't think it was a stupid question or people not wanting to share. The guys are very busy with their jobs, families and developing pcmtec, plus it's only the first day back after a long weekend.

Maybe someone can comment further about how much the transmission shift torque reduction should be changed, for a stock drive train fg mk1.

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13 hours ago, Puffwagon said:

Maybe someone can comment further about how much the transmission shift torque reduction should be changed, for a stock drive train fg mk1.

Hi there, Let me save you some tail chasing and months of pulling your hair out. :)

Along time ago i copied the above tables to have a play with stalling up and forgot about them.   All was working as expected and was pleased with results etc.  Fast forward a couple of months and i'm having weird issues with overboost on gear changes (see link below).  Turns out setting all other torque requestors to 0 will cause the car to rely on spark requestors to do all the torque reduction.  This in turn will cause a large spark cut in to the -ve's and higher cylinder pressures and then overboost.

So atm i have mine set as follows, but still have a lot of testing to do.

auf0262 (spark requestors):  1 = 0.5   4 = 0.3

auf0261 (other requestors):  1 = 0.7   4 = 0.7

As you can see, not big changes.  But this allows the car to not overboost on gear changes and be on the borderline of spinning the wheels.  However for stalling up the transmission this may still induce a fuel cut after a certain amount of time stalled.  Yet to test.

I guess the point is that there are lots of things that effect each other with in the tune and there are trade offs between features to make.  Just be aware these simple changes might cause side affects or they might not.  Slow and steady, lots of testing and flashing and you'll find what works for your car and setup. :)

 

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On 3/13/2019 at 12:49 PM, finnigan001 said:

Slow and steady, lots of testing and flashing and you'll find what works for your car and setup. :)

Quoted for emphasis. You have to test and datalog each change individually, otherwise you are guessing.

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On my BF turbo BTR 4 speed, I am seeing ETC clipped to 75 deg in 1st gear on launch. I have a 3200 converter.

I don't seem to get it on the street but If I have drag radials on at the strip and stall it up anything above 2300rpm it does it.

I'm seeing Trans trunc torque source from about 2850-4000rpm everytime.

Anyone else seen this before with BTR?

I can't find the setting to change it in HPTuners. Its possible they don't have it in the strategy I'm using. (HACCKA2) I've tried making changes similar to what you have listed above for the ZF6 but it doesn't seem to work. I've been chasing this issue for over 1 yr now.

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27 minutes ago, Romulus said:

auF0261 & auF0262, make sure torque truncation is set to 0.

auF1170 must be set higher than maximum stall speed.

Ok i will try that. Ive got spark source set at 1.0

I thought that disabled it.

I have the inferred movement at 3500.

Ive run 11.1, i reckon thus car has a 10 in it if i can fix this etc problem.

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Ok have spent to much time looking up silly things on the internet today, but ive come here to ask the question.

Is there a possibility of a BOV interup signal, say solaniod on the BOV..so when we are stalling the auto the bov is venting boost enabling higher rpm/spool on the stall?

One could also you it can be used like a programmable over-boost valve to where the bov can open when you exceed a boost level...by cuting of the feed to the bov it will open.

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1 hour ago, BeerTurbo said:

when we are stalling the auto the bov is venting boost enabling higher rpm/spool on the stall?

That wouldn't work as you'd lose power from venting the compressed air. You'd be trying to stall up the na version of your motor instead of the turbo version.

 

Take a look here mate http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=The-AllElectronic-BlowOff-Valve&A=2188

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13 hours ago, Puffwagon said:

That wouldn't work as you'd lose power from venting the compressed air. You'd be trying to stall up the na version of your motor instead of the turbo version.

 

Take a look here mate http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=The-AllElectronic-BlowOff-Valve&A=2188

if the air leak was done correctly surely you could find a balance between feeding the engine boost vs the turbine spin speed being higher and ready to force more boost down the engine throat when you remove it.

 

 

i actually only really got onto looking because of my present over-boost situation, while waiting for my ported exhaust housing to arrive.

Nispro have the overboost valve to dump charge air at a certain setpoint, GFB made or used to make a turbo overboost valve that would dump vacuum to the BOV if a certain boost pressure was reached, aka dumping charge air too.

got me thinking about using the ecu to control a mac valve on the bov to do the same thing.

i have a spare valve and hobs boost switch, i might play with the idea.

 

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14 hours ago, BeerTurbo said:

Ok have spent to much time looking up silly things on the internet today, but ive come here to ask the question.

Is there a possibility of a BOV interup signal, say solaniod on the BOV..so when we are stalling the auto the bov is venting boost enabling higher rpm/spool on the stall?

One could also you it can be used like a programmable over-boost valve to where the bov can open when you exceed a boost level...by cuting of the feed to the bov it will open.

People control boost this way in race/rally cars, venting the air back to the intake to keep turbo rpm high and just jamming the wastegate shut. You can overspeed the turbo doing this though and it will also make the turbo run less efficiently but you will get much better response.

At low rpm this isn't going to help you get more boost as it would only assist once you got above your boost threshold.

The way to do it is to hook up a boost controller to a wastegate and replace the bov with a wastegate.

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On 6/11/2019 at 8:11 AM, Roland@pcmtec said:

People control boost this way in race/rally cars, venting the air back to the intake to keep turbo rpm high and just jamming the wastegate shut. You can overspeed the turbo doing this though and it will also make the turbo run less efficiently but you will get much better response.

At low rpm this isn't going to help you get more boost as it would only assist once you got above your boost threshold.

The way to do it is to hook up a boost controller to a wastegate and replace the bov with a wastegate.

see they have purely electronic control bovs now through turbo-smart. would it be something on the hitlist for you guys to program in, trigger a bov event of auto gearshift?

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22 minutes ago, BeerTurbo said:

see they have purely electronic control bovs now through turbo-smart. would it be something on the hitlist for you guys to program in, trigger a bov event of auto gearshift?

I'm not sure why you would want to do this? That is one of the main benefits of an auto, no boost lost on gear shift.

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I just changed these parametres but noticed i didnt have auF15789 for MK IIs even though I have a FG MK II F6. is this a difference between pro and workshop?  I also noticed DSC is in there that I want to turn off.

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Yes it is a workshop only parameter. This parameter was not available in other products so it was a selling feature when we first launched to get workshops on board.

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