finnigan001 Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Hi Guys, Just wondering if anyone had any ideas or has experienced the same issue as i have had. I've recently been trying to dial in a set of 60lb dekas. Been having great success. So i thought. Idle AFRs and WOT on point no lean tip-ins everything looked the goods. Then by chance we happened to turn the aircon off and noticed that the AFRs would slowly but gradually run all the way down to 10:1 then rich(off the scale.) when the car was idling in neutral or park and stopped. Turn the air con back on and then the AFRs sit perfect at 14.5-15. Also, putting the car in drive or reverse would bring the car back towards stoich. This is happening in closed loop and open loop. Things i've tired to remedy: -lean out the low slope. This did not help the idle with aircon off at all and made the car lean everywhere. Enriching the high slope to compensate at WOT helped but the car was still lean at idle in gear. -lower offsets, while this did help a little, bringing the AFRs up to 11, obviously affected the slopes across the rev range and would not come any where near 14.7 the lower i went. -adjusting the breakpoint higher and lower. Didnt seem to have any affect on the idle when stopped. My testing makes me believe there is an idle fuel adjuster some where or an A/C fuel adjustment and in gear adjustment as it seems to lean out/adjust when there is load on the motor. I feel like i'm missing part of the picture and going round in circles, chasing my tail. PS: am using the injector data post up here and on xr6turbo... tried both scalings for 3 and 4 bar. Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 The only thing that affects the fueling at steady state when warm is offset, low slope and high slope. There are no other settings you are missing except for digital pump shot, however this is only for transient conditions. Assuming you spend 8 hours on this and you value your time at more than $0 an hour, it would be cheaper to buy and install new injectors than to spend time trying to dial the dekka 60s in. edit: The only other thing that could cause you issues is a mechanical problem, eg you have a big fuel pump with a restrictive return/regulator, if your base fuel pressure is fluctuating it will be impossible to dial the injectors in correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 3 hours ago, finnigan001 said: AFRs would slowly but gradually run all the way down to 10:1 then rich(off the scale.) I had a o2 sensor fail that caused that. I tried a few second hand ones I had lying around and you could see in the scanner that they were at various stages of stuffedness. Apparently they don't like rough handling so if you've dropped or banged it then get a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnigan001 Posted November 23, 2018 Author Share Posted November 23, 2018 Puff: Cheers, that'll give me something else to test. 4 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said: Assuming you spend 8 hours on this and you value your time at more than $0 an hour, it would be cheaper to buy and install new injectors than to spend time trying to dial the dekka 60s in. Yup i am just about at that stage. I dont mind spending time on it at the moment as its all R&D. However, if its a problem i cant solve its not going to be much help. Havent had an issue dialing in any other injectors other then the dekas. Thanks lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl@pcmtec Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Finnigan, PM sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeocairnsTT Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Hi Darryl Still enjoying your software and I noticed people going on about the Deka 60s a lot I have been tunning them on my territory turbo for the last few month and thought I would just chuck a few stories in the mix as I said it has been a few months of tuning as I have been fitting up a water air system with a lot of other airflow mods to correct along the way I have found that the main thing that affects the idle seems to be the correct 02 sensor and the Ba Bf speed density tuning map and fuel pressure as suggested by one of the other tuners on here the short and long term trims do very little and also the dead time is nothing but a lean out I am running the ford factory settings for injectors but with of course 6olb deka they are all balanced. I am running 80 psi at the regulator with the following settings with a bosch 02 sensor and I tried every brand they all failed as they foul up with soot as the heat shield on all of them has holes in the sides bosch does not and the bosch has a slightly different resistance which seems to cut the crazy fuel load issue they still leaned out until I changed the following tables and it is only a small amount but it does have a dramatic effect. With Air to water intercooling I am not going over 42deg on my cold side of the intercooler and our weather here has been over 40 some days here Regards Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl@pcmtec Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Finnigan can confirm but the data I sent him for the Deka 60s seems to work well. Usually minor changes to get these to work at the stock 4 bar rail pressure. Personally I would just use Bosch 980cc injector (Bosch 0 280 158 040) as they offer great spray pattern and are really easily dialed in. I have attached the parameter file for those wishing to use it in PCMTec. Deka2_StockInjectorBased.param 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnigan001 Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 Definitely the go. After hours and hours of trying to dial these in and having no luck as above, i plugged that param file in and no more issues. Only thing i needed to do was to trim the slopes a little for this car. Couldn't be happier. But i to would grab the Bosch 980cc's as well and have for other cars including my own. Very easy to calibrate, performs as expected when changes are made, perfect for E85 if you ever get there and half the price of the ID1000s and only a couple hundred more than a set of dekas. If you value your time the bosch's are definitely worth the difference. However if you already have a set of dekas from a previous car/build then you can absolutely get them working near perfect with the file above. Thanks again Darryl ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Any one have the injector data sheet for the deca 60lbs. Link dont seem to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Use Darryl's parameter file he posted up earlier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marge Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 The file above doesn’t seem to be available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 I just clicked it and it downloaded fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Hi Guys just reading this and have some Deka 80lbs. I tried the above link and could not access either. Is it still available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Downloads fine here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre34 Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 I'm about to try using the dekka 60s param file to get started dialing in some bosch 627cc/min EV14 Injector (57lb) injectors. Should I make my fuel table auF0172 5% richer to make up for the 3lb size difference to keep it safe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 No, make the change in the injector data. Many more things will be affected by a global change such as injector size and these need to be taken into account. The base table does not do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre34 Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Puffwagon said: No, make the change in the injector data. Many more things will be affected by a global change such as injector size and these need to be taken into account. The base table does not do that. Ok will do. I don’t have an afr logger and I don’t think I can make the O2 sensor log my afr. Would I just keep an eye on the short term fuel trims and make sure they’re +-5 to make sure the injectors are not too lean or do I need to have an afr reader? sorry if my question is dumb. Ive never scaled injectors before Edited October 10 by Andre34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 Eh better a dumb question than none. You need a wideband no ifs or buts. You can't dial in the high slope without it. The trims will be somewhat suitable to work out the low slope but that's about it. I've gotta go right now but read up about the difference between a narrow band and a wide band sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre34 Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 10 hours ago, Puffwagon said: Eh better a dumb question than none. You need a wideband no ifs or buts. You can't dial in the high slope without it. The trims will be somewhat suitable to work out the low slope but that's about it. I've gotta go right now but read up about the difference between a narrow band and a wide band sensor. How hard/easy is it to install a wideband sensor? I have a bf mk2, so could I just replace the rear o2 sensor with a wideband? Or do I have to get one of those cables and wire the wideband to that? once I have the wideband and once I get my stft dialed in, how will I know that the high slope needs to be adjusted and not my fuelling at high rpm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnigan001 Posted October 10 Author Share Posted October 10 Check out the how tos. Lots of great info. It’s where we all started years ago. wiring in a wide band isn’t the hardest thing in the world. But if you’ve not done any auto electrical stuff. Before there is a steep learning curve. You can’t wire the wideband into the ecu. You have to have an external gauge. You either need to weld a second bung or replace the narrow band with the wideband o2 and wire a narrowband output to the 02 input to the ecu. The second option is more complicated and unreliable in my experience. pcmtec can take the wideband info via the DLP anologue converter. You’ll have to purchase and read up on that too. You’ve got a steep learning curve ahead. Welcome aboard, it’s a worth while journey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 Any local mechanic will wire in a wideband and hook it up to a controller under your dash with a fuse tap for less than a few hundred. Imo I'd simply pay someone to do it for you if you aren't feeling confident. Make sure they pick a fuse that's only on when the car is running. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braydenapps Posted Friday at 01:14 PM Share Posted Friday at 01:14 PM On 10/11/2023 at 2:11 AM, Andre34 said: How hard/easy is it to install a wideband sensor? I have a bf mk2, so could I just replace the rear o2 sensor with a wideband? Or do I have to get one of those cables and wire the wideband to that? once I have the wideband and once I get my stft dialed in, how will I know that the high slope needs to be adjusted and not my fuelling at high rpm? Hey mate I'm wiring up a Spartan 3 to my BA MKII XR6T. Was gonna finish it tonight but been buggered after work, I'll give you a rundown once it's hooked up. Am using the factory narrowband bung to wire the wideband Bosch LSU 4.9 O2 sensor and feeding back narrowband output to the loom. In fact I have cut the narrowband O2 sensor off its loom so I can hook the four wires up respectively without chopping into the fuse box. Will run the wideband sensor and the Spartan 3 unit from the factory narrowband power/heater wire, as the sensor and Spartan are only to be powered on once the car is started and I'm not a fan of killing things unnecessarily. Though I do thrash the living hell out of my Falcon and I'll be on my third BTR shortly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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