Yortt

[Yortt]

Does the XR6T have in the operating system the ability to control boost by gear (or is this only in the sprint operating system)? if it does, does your editor include this function.

If not do you see any possibility of this function being available for XR6T in the future?

Thanks

 

[Darryl@pcmtec]

Yortt,

    For the XR6 turbo the only operating system with the ability to do boost by gear is HAER1. Customers have put this into their FG MK II XR6 Turbos with success including updating the ZF cal. PCMTec will support this in the next release with the Workshop version directly and the Professional version on a per user request.

With the earlier MK 1, putting this operating system in the car does not work (the car wont start),  a few are exploring options. This is something that happens when you try and put MK II code into MK 1 PCMs.

If you have a MK II and install HAER1 you may change the ability to stall the car up. I believe stall up is disabled with all MK IIs but have not checked yet. We resolved this in September.

For prior models if there is enough interest we could spend a month doing the code. I did it for my BF Territory Turbo but was not satisfied with the timer for overboost.  Another person did it for his BA Falcon as well prior to me doing it in my car.

   

[Yortt]

Darryl

Thanks for the informative explanation.  With upgraded power having boost control by gear it would appear to achieve a significant improvement in getting power to the road   looks like it is not going to be readily available anytime soon for the MK1.

Thanks

Edited November 21, 2017 by Yortt
missing word

[Roland@pcmtec]

Hi Yortt, retrofitting boost by gear will be a challenge. Though don't rule it out yet as it is something we might look at adding down the track, it will just be a matter of where it sits priority wise with our other list of items to add.

Any other questions or feedback please post away as it is feedback from people like yourself that will drive the direction of the software.

[Yortt]

Roland thanks for the information.

Now looking at upgrading a MK11 XR6T boost by gear , Darryl's comment "Customers have put this into their FG MK II XR6 Turbos with success including updating the ZF cal. PCMTec  will support this in the next release with the Workshop version directly and the Professional version on a per user request. " Any indication of a time frame for the next release ?.

[Darryl@pcmtec]

On 11/24/2017 at 12:20 PM, Yortt said:

Roland thanks for the information.

Now looking at upgrading a MK11 XR6T boost by gear , Darryl's comment "Customers have put this into their FG MK II XR6 Turbos with success including updating the ZF cal. PCMTec  will support this in the next release with the Workshop version directly and the Professional version on a per user request. " Any indication of a time frame for the next release ?.

Yortt,

This can be done now. The process would be to read the car but not license it, send us the file and we will put in the XR6 Sprint calibration and then you can license and flash it into the car. 

[Yortt]

On 11/27/2017 at 11:00 AM, Darryl@pcmtec said:

Yortt,

This can be done now. The process would be to read the car but not license it, send us the file and we will put in the XR6 Sprint calibration and then you can license and flash it into the car. 

Sounds good but I have a few questions

My intention is to buy the professional version

Objective is to use the current tune with the ability to control boost by gear and maintain access with VCM suite through existing VCM suite license after upgrading and licensing with PCMTec.

1.       Will my existing VCM suite license still access and still work with the upgraded sprint calibration?

2.       Will the existing file I send you which is tune upgraded, will the upgraded settings still be in the new supplied sprint calibration?

3.       With the current ZF transmission settings can the sprint trans operating system be copied to the vehicle also or is it just a matter of copying across the sprint settings to the existing trans operating system?

4.       Is your current software able to compare engine and trans from one file to another?

5.       Is VCM Suite able to read a PCMTec tune file and vise versa?

6.       Once a PCMTec license is applied to a PCM tune file would any further licensing be required.?

Thanks

 

[Darryl@pcmtec]

1 hour ago, Yortt said:

Sounds good but I have a few questions

My intention is to buy the professional version

Objective is to use the current tune with the ability to control boost by gear and maintain access with VCM suite through existing VCM suite license after upgrading and licensing with PCMTec.

1.       Will my existing VCM suite license still access and still work with the upgraded sprint calibration?

2.       Will the existing file I send you which is tune upgraded, will the upgraded settings still be in the new supplied sprint calibration?

3.       With the current ZF transmission settings can the sprint trans operating system be copied to the vehicle also or is it just a matter of copying across the sprint settings to the existing trans operating system?

4.       Is your current software able to compare engine and trans from one file to another?

5.       Is VCM Suite able to read a PCMTec tune file and vise versa?

6.       Once a PCMTec license is applied to a PCM tune file would any further licensing be required.?

Thanks

 

1. The VCM license will only work with the original calibration assuming it is already licensed. If you want to edit it in HP Tuners you will need to re-license the Sprint tune with VCM Suite again (HP Tuners use a VIN/Strategy in the license key).
2. I will ensure they are copied over. The compare is being updated to allow you to do this yourself like HP Tuners (copy over differences functions).
3. We cannot flash the ZF just yet. You could use HPT to do that if you license the vehicle as in step 1.
4. Yes compare works on both the Engine and the Gearbox (ZF).
5. Yes, that is the default but it is your choice (you may edit the OSID/Strategy to stop other HP Tuners opening the calibration). PCMTec does not rely on these areas to determine the calibration and that is why we can open and edit any scrambled calibrations.
6. No, not unless you change the VIN and/or the OSID, see Note.

Note: The PCMTec license for the Vehicle is based on Serial Number, VIN and OSID. If you change VIN or OSID then a new license would be required. PCMTec does not license on strategy. For example if you license a vehicle with an OSID of HACCK then you are free to edit any of the 60 odd Ford factory calibrations they have.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Darryl@pcmtec
Missing PCMTec qualifier for license

[Yortt]

Darryl

Thanks for the prompt detailed response  it answers my questions, this gives me enough clarification to make a decision .

 

[Roland@pcmtec]

FYI being able to copy over differences yourself from the Compare viewer is not far off. ZF flashing is likely to be the new year, we can get you an editable (but not flashable) copy of your ZF trans into the editor in the mean time if you are curious what kind of parameters you will be able to view.

"The VCM license will only work with the original calibration assuming it is already licensed"

Whilst this is true there will be nothing stopping you from flashing the old non boost by gear file back into the car should you wish to use HPTuners again, you just won't be able to edit the Sprint OS with HPTuners unless you license it again.

[Yortt]

2 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

FYI being able to copy over differences yourself from the Compare viewer is not far off. ZF flashing is likely to be the new year, we can get you an editable (but not flashable) copy of your ZF trans into the editor in the mean time if you are curious what kind of parameters you will be able to view.

"The VCM license will only work with the original calibration assuming it is already licensed"

Whilst this is true there will be nothing stopping you from flashing the old non boost by gear file back into the car should you wish to use HPTuners again, you just won't be able to edit the Sprint OS with HPTuners unless you license it again.

Roland, understood thanks!

Another couple of questions

RE "No, not unless you change the VIN and/or the OSID, see Note"'........ does this include any future upgrades or additions?

So PCMTec tune files are not scrambled? are they in a bin file format?

Can your software clone a back up PCM in case something goes wrong?

Thanks

 

 

[Darryl@pcmtec]

42 minutes ago, Yortt said:

Roland, understood thanks!

Another couple of questions

RE "No, not unless you change the VIN and/or the OSID, see Note"'........ does this include any future upgrades or additions?

So PCMTec tune files are not scrambled? are they in a bin file format?

Can your software clone a back up PCM in case something goes wrong?

Thanks

 

 

RE "No, not unless you change the VIN and/or the OSID, see Note"'........ does this include any future upgrades or additions?

Future upgrades and additions will use the same licensing model so yes it does include upgrades and additions. For example ZF editing/Flashing will be included in the Professional version and the Scanner will be included in all versions at no extra cost.

So PCMTec tune files are not scrambled? are they in a bin file format? 

The tune files are not scrambled but are stored in PCMTec ".tec" file format. Once licensed they can be shared and edited by anyone with a licensed version of PCMTec. We consider this a real strength of the product as it allows collaboration with colleges.

Can your software clone a back up PCM in case something goes wrong?

Yes . When you read the calibration and save the tec file then this can be used as a backup. You will need to license it to flash it back into the car so no different to HP Tuners in that respect.

The process would be for you to read the car and send us the tec file. We would "merge" in the Sprint strategy and send it back to you. You would then license the file, edit it  and flash it into the car. This would use one vehicle license (3 credits of the 6 that come with Professional).

For you information the Workshop package allows "factory reset" and this will do the same thing without the calibration merge. This is similar to what they do with Ford IDS.

The other thing I will do is send you the factory ZF calibrations for the XR6 Sprint, your original factory calibration (including ZF calibration that Ford released with it) and the tuned calibration as tec files so you can easily compare the differences.  

email me the full name of the strategy and I can send you a tec "Demo" file to have a look at.

[Yortt]

RE Can your software clone a back up PCM in case something goes wrong?

RE Yes . When you read the calibration and save the tec file then this can be used as a backup. You will need to license it to flash it back into the car so no different to HP Tuners in that respect.

Just to clarify I can save the tec file get spare PCM license it to flash it, flash the tec file into the spare PCM and I have a cloned spare PCM as back up?

email me the full name of the strategy.........  I have emailed it thanks

[PCMTEC]

The cloned PCM is not that simple. If you write to a different PCM it has a different serial number (that can't be changed) and this will also cause the EPATS system to trigger and stop the car from running. 

The only software I'm aware of that can reprogram the EPATS security system is Ford IDS or Forscan. 

So you could license the second PCM (as it has a different serial number) then use another software package to reprogram the EPATS system if you wanted to. As far as I am aware neither HPtuners nor SCT can do this either. 

We may implement the EPATS programming in the future if there is enough demand for it. 

Edit: whoops used the admin account (Roland) 

[Yortt]

Darryl

Your detailed responses are appreciated thanks

Edited November 29, 2017 by Yortt
grammar

[Yortt]

Another question, all my files I have are .hpt is there anyway I can convert them to .tec to view them in your editor?

thanks

[Darryl@pcmtec]

11 minutes ago, Yortt said:

Another question, all my files I have are .hpt is there anyway I can convert them to .tec to view them in your editor?

thanks

A way is to flash the vehicle and read it back with PCMTec and save the file way. This could be easily achieved with your bench harness. Email me with the details on how many, etc... 

[Mick]

Although it not wise to use and incorrect strategy as it can lead to problems some of which are bricked ECU's, I am currently running a sprint tune in my MK2 FG, there was some initial trouble codes, but the tune has been used for testing purposes, not power though, for over 7000 klms and have no issues

[Roland@pcmtec]

Mick when you say bricked PCMs do you have any information on which strategies will cause them to brick? If you still have the PCMs I'm curious if we can recover them, this is mainly so we can make a list of transitions and block people from doing it in the editor if it is not reversible.

[Mick]

sorry I can't give exact details, but I know it was on a FG XR6 I was tuning, I ended up with 2 different strategies open and loaded the incorrect one, it locked the ecu and the flashbox, I had to send them to the SCT agent, was honest in how it happened and they recovered both for me. They said it was not uncommon

[Darryl@pcmtec]

Usual Goals:

BA, most common is to put HAAT2/3 into earlier BAs to get the added resolution of the SD/Spark/... tables. You should buy the FPV oil pressure sensor to work around the Check Engine light that this will cause.

FG MK II most are after FGX XR6 Sprint calibrations (HAER1UA/HAER1UB) into their turbo 6. You will need Ford IDS or FORScan to fix keys, BCM, ...if you intend using a spare PCM to do this.

The process for achieving this has been outlined under the FAQ section on the pcmtec.com. We will work with the customer to achieve these goals.

Known issues:

Flashing anything other than like will cause issues like doing FG -> BF, BF -BA, etc. 

We now know that flashing FG MK 1 into a MK II and visa versa has issues, may not brick the PCM but car usually wont start.

You need to match the ZF TCM with the model. FG ZF TCM will not work in BF and a BF ZF TCM will not work if swapped into a FG. If you intend doing this then you need to find the correct TCM (mechatronics) and swap them around. I believe it works best then if you match the PCM/TCM calibrations.

Futures:

Gear based boos control for BF and FG MK 1. This is a custom operating system and we may have a look at this in the future.

I played with it in my Territory turbo and was not happy with my WOT timer but that may be fixable now that we have a much better understanding of the DMRs being used. For an AWD Territory it may be a waste as they really only start to spin the wheels after about 19psi. My preference is for an OS at least HACH3 as it brings in a two two dimensional tables to allow boost to be controlled depending on throttle/RPM.

FG Mk 1. Most promising possibility. My preference is HAEDH (first) and I will use the gear based boost control from the V8 Supercharged (very different to how it is done in the MK IIs BTW). All the workshops I ask say "it would be nice" but will never use it". This might be different if we do it.

[Yortt]

"All the workshops I ask say "it would be nice" but will never use it". This might be different if we do it."

 

It would be interesting to see what  modified XR6T owners think!

Unfortunately my car is a series 1, if this function becomes available for the series 1 then I would buy it.

I have a mate with a Series 11 (modified) that we have tuned, the only problem now is the lack of traction, it is anticipated using "boost by gear" will make the car safer and and in line with what this is all about making the car accelerate as quick as possible particularly from stationary at WOT. And is willing to pay  for a dongle, PCMTec software and and the boost by gear tuning to achieve this. Not a cheap exercise but an indication of the potential.

[Yortt]

With your logger, on an FG ZF with the 51 shift patterns does your scanner log which of the 51 maps are being used ?

Thanks

[Darryl@pcmtec]

1 hour ago, Yortt said:

I have a mate with a Series 11 (modified) that we have tuned, the only problem now is the lack of traction, it is anticipated using "boost by gear" will make the car safer and and in line with what this is all about making the car accelerate as quick as possible particularly from stationary at WOT. And is willing to pay  for a dongle, PCMTec software and and the boost by gear tuning to achieve this. Not a cheap exercise but an indication of the potential.

Yortt, that can be achieved quite economically. If you are doing it for him then that will cost 3 credits ($150 + GST) and he will not need to purchase anything. If he wants to tune then he will need the Enthusiast version ($330 GST inc) and a dongle ($120 for something like VX DIAG Nano, approximately $300 for Tactrix, ...) unless he can borrow one for the flash process (we do not tie the dongle to the software).

I am currently using the VX DIAG Nano ($120 on eBay from Aus, took 2 days to get to me from Sydney) until my Tactrix is replaced. Slow but effective and it even comes with a "free" Ford IDS 

[Darryl@pcmtec]

1 hour ago, Yortt said:

With your logger, on an FG ZF with the 51 shift patterns does your scanner log which of the 51 maps are being used ?

Thanks

The priorities are ZF flashing on J2534 devices and PCM logging.

Assuming there is a demand for it we will look at ZF logging after these two are completed.  With over 2500 items defined for logging you would hope there is something to log which map is being used. 

Do you know if Eric ever put the logging information I got for him into HP Tuners?

[Yortt]

Darryl

1 hour ago, Darryl@pcmtec said:

Yortt, that can be achieved quite economically. If you are doing it for him then that will cost 3 credits ($150 + GST) and he will not need to purchase anything. If he wants to tune then he will need the Enthusiast version ($330 GST inc) and a dongle ($120 for something like VX DIAG Nano, approximately $300 for Tactrix, ...) unless he can borrow one for the flash process (we do not tie the dongle to the software).

I am currently using the VX DIAG Nano ($120 on eBay from Aus, took 2 days to get to me from Sydney) until my Tactrix is replaced. Slow but effective and it even comes with a "free" Ford IDS 

Darryl,  my mates car  has been tuned with VCM Suite and I do not believe  with his current mechanical set up there are any more power gains to be had with the exception of "boost by gear", we believe this is the final step left to refine driveability and performance and he is willing to pay for it which seems to be contrary to your workshop survey which is the point I was trying to make.

[Yortt]

1 hour ago, Darryl@pcmtec said:

The priorities are ZF flashing on J2534 devices and PCM logging.

Assuming there is a demand for it we will look at ZF logging after these two are completed.  With over 2500 items defined for logging you would hope there is something to log which map is being used. 

Do you know if Eric ever put the logging information I got for him into HP Tuners?

To try and custom tune gear change points is extremely difficult without knowing which of the 51 maps is being  used, I assume this information is available in the data stream.

With respect to did Eric put the information you gave him, I don't know but the conclusion I have come to with VCM Suite is they have been very reluctant to apply resources for  Australian Ford development in the past and given the falcon has now finished,  any  resources they have will be put into other more potentially profitable areas.

[Roland@pcmtec]

30 minutes ago, Yortt said:

 I don't know but the conclusion I have come to with VCM Suite is they have been very reluctant to apply resources for  Australian Ford development in the past and given the falcon has now finished,  any  resources they have will be put into other more potentially profitable areas.

This is where we can shine, with our Australia first attitude it should help fill this hole over time as this will be our only focus until we are confident is is the best piece of software available to tune the Falcon platform.

[Darryl@pcmtec]

On 11/20/2017 at 10:29 AM, Yortt said:

Does the XR6T have in the operating system the ability to control boost by gear (or is this only in the sprint operating system)? if it does, does your editor include this function.

If not do you see any possibility of this function being available for XR6T in the future?

Thanks

 

Well any operating system can do gear based boost control now but that is the tip of the iceberg. How about gear based torque management as well?

 See the link here: 

 

[Yortt]

3 hours ago, Darryl@pcmtec said:

Well any operating system can do gear based boost control now but that is the tip of the iceberg. How about gear based torque management as well?

This is a great leap forward, particularly given the original comment.......... ""All the workshops I ask say "it would be nice" but will never use it". 

So does this mean for a 2008 XR6T i would have to use a custom operating system?

 

3 hours ago, Darryl@pcmtec said:

 See the link here: 

 

 

[Roland@pcmtec]

7 minutes ago, Yortt said:

This is a great leap forward, particularly given the original comment.......... ""All the workshops I ask say "it would be nice" but will never use it". 

So does this mean for a 2008 XR6T i would have to use a custom operating system?

 

 

Yes it appears it is much easier than we originally thought to offer custom axis inputs etc, originally it just seemed like the effort would be too much however that is no longer the case. The hard bit will be getting the UI to dynamically allow a user to change these. Currently we are manually editing the binary.  We have come up with a procedure to implement this dynamically in the UI, however it will take some time to implement it.

Ultimately if we get this custom OS working as we have planned, you will be able to select any DMR at all as an input to the Axis, this would open up a massive amount of possibilities, effectively making the PCM almost as flexible as an aftermarket one such as a Haltech etc.

To answer you question, if you wanted to boost by gear in a BA/BF then yes you would need to use a custom OS. Currently I believe only the Sprint etc have boost by gear which is only compatible with the FG (mk2 I think?) PCMs.

[Darryl@pcmtec]

13 minutes ago, Yortt said:

This is a great leap forward, particularly given the original comment.......... ""All the workshops I ask say "it would be nice" but will never use it". 

So does this mean for a 2008 XR6T i would have to use a custom operating system?

 

 

Yortt. Yes a custom OS at this stage. The request came from another workshops as they wanted Vehicle Speed based boost control instead of intake temperature but this would need a change the vehicle speed to something that was working even with wheel spin (I suspect TCS may work). It was this request that triggered how to do it in an automated manner (ie the tuner gets to decide).

Turns out all those hours we spend understanding the assembler and not just using factory files will pay off now. Many things can be done and I am programming the flexibility now and Rolls is working on a method to get it into the GUI.

In a nutshell you will have the flexibility to put any axis input or axis on any table as well as changing any table input and dimensions. Other things the tuner could do with this method is changing the Speed Density tables to use MAP or LOAD instead of cam angle (GM VE table). More extensive changes like the  injector model to use a Chrysler like system (curve with mass as input and resultant time output for injector pulse width) I am toying with. I would like to add a wideband in place of the second o2 sensor and seeing if I can turn the IMRC control around so it is an input to the PCM to allow different MAPS for something like LPG/NOS/E85 inputs.