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Missing injector data


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Hi all :D

 

I've just read and licensed the tune in my car and some injector data is missing, specifically the high and low slopes, breakpoint and pw min.

 

I noticed that this data is missing from the stock file that I looked at from the strategy code but I expected that it would show up when I read the vehicle. I emailed a copy of the read to support today (for the custom os) so hopefully we can work out what's going on.

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When you say missing what do you mean? Can you take a screen shot? 

As in the values are 0? Just press the + button to increase the number of decimal places visible. Once you change it, it will persist after restart. 

0.66 which is due out soon has a higher number of decimal places by default. 

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Full numbers would be good as well as the cells fitting the whole number.

I did think it was odd that a couple of the cells had a 0.03 number in them but it didn't click the the decimal place was out even tho I've had that same issue in excel once or twice.

Now that we know whats going on it could be made into a thing that people are made aware of if needed.

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The issue with the decimal places is if you use say interpolate on the spark table, you end up with 40.5445645654 as the value which looks super annoying as you really don't care about decimals there.

So in the next release we have got 6 floating decimal places by default, this means things like low slope/deadtime will show the full number of decimals. However if they have a value like 1.0 it won't show you any 0s.

You can still use the +/- buttons to change the default which is remembered on a per ID basis, so lets say you never want to see decimals on the spark table, just hit the - button a few times and it won't ever show up.

What we might do is just hard code a few important IDs (spark, deadtime, slopes etc) to be a nice value for the default.

The columns should auto fit the values already, but if you add/remove decimals you'll need to close it and open it again to resize the headers. I'll add doing this automatically to the list though as it would be nice.

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Off the top of my head without thinking into it too much...I love a good brainstorm ?

 

Prefilled injector data for most mainstream injectors at stock reg pressure.

Perhaps a fuel pressure offset table for guys running aftermarket regs at different/constant pressures. Could you do a fuel pressure input and have a variable speed pump control output?

You want one decimal place for spark as it is pretty common to use half a degree.

Would it be possible to have a wideband input, a desired afr map and some type of histogram to show the offset needed to achieve it along with influencing tables/scalars? Something similar for spark and knock would be good but I spose that is pretty standard. Being able to change the whole table by the logged offset, ala winlog/tewblog, would enable quick map adjustments.

You've already mentioned data tracing and highlighting every affected table/scalar. This will be awesome.

A basic zf tuning manual highlighting which shift tables need to be changed to increase pressure and shift speed/points for paying customers. On that topic perhaps varying degrees of prefilled zf tune that can be used at ones own risk.

We've already got reds and greens but perhaps a warning system for clearly incorrect or dangerous cell entries. Although there is a range for the cell, we already saw today that an incorrect entry can cause problems. This could be limited to (final?) spark, fuel and wastegate areas.

Basic stock tune upgrade wizard. Detect the pcm/tcm and providing everything is stock (confirmed by the tuner/customer), load a suitable tune from a higher powered car such as f6, sprint etc. This will help noobs upgrade safely, at their own risk of course.

 

Wideband input with throttle blade close function on lean out. This could be tuned with map vs afr voltage.

 

There's a few spelling mistakes in the software as well, not that I'm picking. I guess that's part of getting it polished.

 

Anyhow, hopefully there's something good in there.

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1 minute ago, Puffwagon said:

There's a few spelling mistakes in the software as well, not that I'm picking. I guess that's part of getting it polished.

These are easy ones to fix. If you find any, please let us know!

I'm aware there are some in the ford descriptions, however there are about 40,000 of them to go through and Darryl almost necked himself the first time he did it. So if you see any, let us know.

I like the rest of the ideas, a lot of that stuff will come with datalogging, so we can really see how good we can make the software then.

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Quote

I am having trouble working this out to, pressed the plus button and it changed the hole number, I worried if I try and change it it will be completely wrong. what is lbm/s can we change it to lb/h? and can we also change any other units like f to c deg?

 

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+/- doesn't actually change the number, it just changes how many decimal place are displayed. When you click on the number to change it, you always see the full number of decimal places.

Units we may add in the future, however it is a huge job to do correctly as some of the units that ford have chosen aren't necessarily correct or sometimes they don't have units at all (when they should) so it is safer to just leave the units exactly as they are in the PCM.

lbm/s is pounds per second.

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3 minutes ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

Just drag the column header and make it wider so you can see the whole number.

Otherwise if you leave it on the default values of 6 decimal places then restart the program it will auto expand everything anyway.

sorry I must be retarded I have put the cursor over everything and can't make it wider. Is my math right?. check the hp file same tune.

pcmtec 4.png

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The number is fine. Just drag the header so you can see the whole number, if you can't drag the header then press the + button 5 or 6 times so you get max decimal places, then restart the program and it will auto expand the column for you

Once you do that it will look like this

image.png.48bc147691f37afd10aa83435c3ab5fd.png

To convert from lbm/s to lb/hr you just multiple it by 3600

so 0.031 lbm/s is 111.6 lb/hr

Your number will be something like 0.026, 0.03 is rounded up, you need 5 decimal places and you need to drag the header so you can see the entire number.

If you leave the defaults in 0.71 and don't change anything it will look like my screenshot.

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On 7/27/2018 at 1:57 PM, Roland@pcmtec said:

Any other UI suggestions you guys have don't hold back, anything that can help speed up the process of building a tune we would like to implement.

This should go into a new thread methinks. It'll have much better visibility.

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11 hours ago, Puffwagon said:

This should go into a new thread methinks. It'll have much better visibility.

I already have 100 items on my list, don't need anymore at this stage haha. 

Will you need to do the rest of them now. Are you using 0.71? It should set them all to 6 decimals by default 

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That's all good mate. I'll start the thread after if you want it up. 

 

Haha ironically I've had to fix the spark tables to read one decimal place but it'll solve the issue that will15 and i had.

 

I did think of another thing tho. Being able to highlight one line at a time so they're isn't a mess of lines to look through with the new feature. 

 

It's a good addition however ☺️

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On 7/27/2018 at 3:20 PM, Puffwagon said:

Off the top of my head without thinking into it too much...I love a good brainstorm ?

 

Prefilled injector data for most mainstream injectors at stock reg pressure.

Perhaps a fuel pressure offset table for guys running aftermarket regs at different/constant pressures. Could you do a fuel pressure input and have a variable speed pump control output?

 

Puffwagon,

Pre filled Injector data for ID injectors will be coming as Value Files very soon. I will start posting them up on the forums next week. I have attached a sample of the ID 1000 data but I have not checked it fully yet nor extended the voltage offsets to as many points as the ID Data has.

With respect to fuel pressure offset table, yes that could be done and indeed Ford even put that in the BA tunes as it is used in the "returnless" fuel system. Unfortunately I don't believe there are enough inputs/outputs available to do both as Ford used quite a few to get the variable VCT for both cams working (I think that was a world first for any company, rumors suggest that Ford US told Ford AU it was not even possible then Ford AU did it as a world first :) ). I suspect this might be achievable with the EcoLPi PCM as it does this already but it does not do turbo control.

We actually scrounged to get an input for the Flex Fuel sensor and decided to use the rear O2 sensor as it has power as well so it can be used to drive the Flex Fuel hardware. I will be testing this over the weekend and if all goes well it will be handed over to the two workshops testing it next week (Independent Motorsports and Springy Performance).

Thank you for your feedback , we really do appreciate it and updating our TODO list. 

 

ID1000_BF.param

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2 hours ago, Darryl@pcmtec said:

Pre filled Injector data for ID injectors will be coming as Value Files very soon.

 

I just tried out the attached file and it worked as intended. Even if it doesn't set up the fuelling perfectly it'll be a great starting point and time saver.

 

Flex fuel will be great as most of my driving is done at hwy speeds and is a waste of e85. It'll be good to be able to mostly drain the tank on the weekend, top it up with e85 and not have to stuff around with the tune several times.

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2 hours ago, Puffwagon said:

Wow I only just had a look at what can be done with the value files. This is awesome. Such a massive time saver!

If you tune a lot of cars they are a necessity. You can thank IMS for constantly pushing us to get some of these features out sooner.

Eg if you have a value file for most common injectors, open/loop closed loop setup. Boost maps for various turbos and wastegate actuator combos you can build a full tune up in 10 minutes at home before the vehicle even drives in, then all you have to do is trim it up on the dyno.

Doing everything from scratch each time is a very time consuming way to tune a car.

On 8/1/2018 at 6:25 PM, will15 said:

Haha yeah Roland probably see’s my name pop up and be like gee’s not this guy again.?

It is great when you guys ask questions, it helps us fix problems and make the software easier to use.

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48 minutes ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

If you tune a lot of cars they are a necessity.

I can imagine.

I've done mine from scratch a few times and it's very time consuming especially if you have to work out the injector data beforehand. 

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Flex fuel sounds great, will a ba ecu Handel the twin O2 inputs?

would you still have to swap maps for 98/e85 with something like the Nguadge?

or can you use the second 02 input to perhaps alter fueling, maybe adjust the baseline coolant-temp compensation table with ethanol is detected to add extra fuel? and same with the Air temp perhaps to trick it into more timing by making eth have a negative effect on temp - so going into positive timing adjustments?

anyway im sure you guys have a smart way to do and im keen to hear about it - see the results - sounds verry interesting! 

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Initially we are developing the Flex Fuel OS for BF/FG Mk1, FG Mk2 as they all have the second O2 sensor. BA will have to use the power steering pressure sensor or something similar.

The second O2 sensor will be connected to an ethanol sensor + controller that outputs 0-5V.

Here is the preliminary flex fuel tables we have added.

image.png.ad1596ecf1198978cb2231a8f6139eac.png

It will then interpolate between the standard 98 tables and the E85/flex fuel table using this lookup:

image.png.33fab36fd8b4bd614d3fc8711f2bd18b.png

 

Eg if the flex fuel sensor outputs 2 volts your Fuel base would be: fuel_base = fuel_base_98 * 0.6 + fuel_base_e85 * 0.4

Eg it would use 60% of the standard table and 40% of the alcohol table. If you want a non linear relationship, eg you want to run more timing/boost at full e85 you can do this. Darryl is testing the logic out today on his vehicle and we should hopefully have something for our beta tester workshops in the coming weeks.

Another great use of this system is you could use it for dual maps and variable boost.

Eg you make all the tables identical except boost you could hook up a potentiometer dial to the input and have variable boost. Or you could simply have a digital switch and switch specific maps to allow for water/meth injection etc.

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21 minutes ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

hook up a potentiometer dial to the input

 

Run the required timing and fuel and throttle settings in one map to create antilag and then have a momentary switch to activate it.

 

I wonder if you could also do some zf solenoid control so it'd be in neutral on an antilag map then go into gear on the normal map?

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7 minutes ago, Puffwagon said:

 

Run the required timing and fuel and throttle settings in one map to create antilag and then have a momentary switch to activate it.

 

I wonder if you could also do some zf solenoid control so it'd be in neutral on an antilag map then go into gear on the normal map?

Something like the Ac pressure input, steal that to activate the antilag map? well for me anyway because the car in question has no ac.

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Just now, BeerTurbo said:

Something like the Ac pressure input, steal that to activate the antilag map? well for me anyway because the car in question has no ac.

That's an idea. Have more than one 0 to 5 volt input. Whether there could be 3 or more maps is something that Roland or Darryl can tell us.

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39 minutes ago, Puffwagon said:

That's an idea. Have more than one 0 to 5 volt input. Whether there could be 3 or more maps is something that Roland or Darryl can tell us.

We can only repurpose existing sensors. Using the second O2 sensor for flex is a no brainier as most people remove it with their exhaust systems, it also is near the fuel tank and has ground and power. 

I haven't looked at the electrical drawings recently but if you can think of any other sensors that could be repurpose I'm all ears. 

Not many people would be keen on using the Ac sensor so it has to be something the majority of people wouldn't miss. 

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