HOWTO: Ghost Cam and VCT simplification

[Mitch1987]

Hi new to all this I have a 2014 fg Xr6 turbo and it’s been tuned with pcmtec normal on tune 1 and tune 2 is same tune with ghost cams if I slightly touch the accelerator it will hunt between 500-1000 rpm 

same when slowing down and level out after about 3 times is there something in my tune wrong ? That you have come across thanks 

[Roland@pcmtec]

You need to speak to your tuner. Ghost cam will always have compromises. 

[Roland@pcmtec]

Reverse Ghost Cam

Thanks to Stathi at IMS for his time and perseverance we have a procedure for doing a reverse ghost cam. This allows you to close up the overlap at idle or change the intake cam angle.

This procedure was tested on an auto FG, this should also work on other vehicles however we have only been able to test it on an auto FG.

You will need to experiment with what angle works best, it may be positive or negative depending on how the cam shafts are degreed.

Intake only

First ensure the scalars used to enable a ghost cam idle are set back to stock

auF1035 == 1100

auF1079 == 1200

auF0102 set to 20 
auF0100 set to 20
auF0103 set to 20

VCT angle auF16610 set to 20 in the idle range
VCT angle auF0115 set to 20 in the idle range
VCT angle auF16501 set to 20 in the idle range

Beware that with a large camshaft the TP can be as high as 160 at idle and the load as high as 0.5, so you need to cover a lot of the table to get this to work as expected. You may also want to tune your spark timing at these higher loads to assist with bucking and jerking in carparks.

To get the exhaust cam overlap to close during idle up the best method is to simply degree the camshafts so there is no overlap when installed. If you cannot do this then you can close up the overlap at idle by setting the following tables

This will cause the exhaust cam overlap to close up to -20 when in CAM SOURCE == 4 (idle mode) when CAM SOURCE == 1 (in gear) we couldn't get the overlap to close up (eg an auto in gear). We found that the overlap being at 0 actually gave a stronger idle however so we did not persist with making this work. In a manual this would be not be an issue.

auF0098 set to -20
auF0097 set to -20
auF0116 set to -20

This combination of tables is fairly specific as we found auF0115 (max overlap vs oil temperature) is also used as a "max intake camshaft position) when in gear. This was required to be set to 20 to get the intake camshaft to do what we wanted when in gear.

The actual angles to use for the best idle will need lots of experimentation as it depends entirely on the camshaft aggressiveness and how they have been degreed, eg do they have overlap built into base position or not.

Here is a log showing the idle camshaft angle and load. This showed an idle of 0.36 load and 19 inHG/ 61 kPa

Happy smooth idling guys!

[Bill]

4 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

Thanks to Stathi at IMS for his time and perseverance we have a procedure for doing a reverse ghost cam.

Well done Stathi. It's one thing to spend time working this out for IMS customers, but to allow you to share it @Roland@pcmtec is pretty awesome!!

[Puffwagon]

That's pretty cool. I reckon I'll have to give it a try one day.

[Roland@pcmtec]

I'll share everything I can figure out on my own as it means less support for us and better results for the workshops customers. The issue is getting someone to give me access to their car via teamviewer. 

If people can set everything up with teamviewer and have given it a decent go themselves I'll give just about anything a crack. 

[Puffwagon]

16 minutes ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

The issue is getting someone to give me access to their car

 

Don't you have a turbo falcon?

[Bill]

12 minutes ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

I'll share everything I can figure out on my own as it means less support for us and better results for the workshops customers. The issue is getting someone to give me access to their car via teamviewer. 

If people can set everything up with teamviewer and have given it a decent go themselves I'll give just about anything a crack. 

@Roland@pcmtecI thought from your previous post it was all Stathi's work.....when you or the team can better the product through support, even better again 👍

[Kano]

On 7/31/2018 at 2:23 PM, Roland@pcmtec said:

It is also recommended to disable LTFT when the ghost cam is active by adding this to your ghost cam tune. This will prevent closed loop fueling from maxing out adding fuel (auF0164)

Hi Roland, to disable LTFT would change the value from 1 to 0..... very new to pcmtec, thanks

[Roland@pcmtec]

42 minutes ago, Kano said:

Hi Roland, to disable LTFT would change the value from 1 to 0..... very new to pcmtec, thanks

Yes but never trust anything you read. Always test to confirm. Try it, datalog and make sure it does what you expect. If it's wrong report back. 

[Kano]

On 9/2/2021 at 8:42 PM, Roland@pcmtec said:

Yes but never trust anything you read. Always test to confirm. Try it, datalog and make sure it does what you expect. If it's wrong report back. 

So i followed the steps, and this is the results on a stock FG @ 25 degrees cam overlap....

[BeerTurbo]

On 8/1/2018 at 7:18 AM, Roland@pcmtec said:

If you have stock cams providing you don't you don't touch the tables such as "Expected position of cam hardstop" you will be fine. If you change these tables you run the risk of hitting the physical interlocks to stop the cams from causing valve piston interference.

I cant seem to find this, is this a professional only thing?

am interested to know max retard/advance deg is on the exhaust cam in a bf.

[Bill]

31 minutes ago, BeerTurbo said:

I cant seem to find this, is this a professional only thing?

am interested to know max retard/advance deg is on the exhaust cam in a bf.

auF12525 Expected position of cam hardstop at maximum energized position is a workshop - PCMTEC development parameter.

CAM specs & valve timing info from the BF workshop manual gives details on cam advance degrees as highlighted below

[BeerTurbo]

10 minutes ago, Bill said:

auF12525 Expected position of cam hardstop at maximum energized position is a workshop - PCMTEC development parameter.

CAM specs & valve timing info from the BF workshop manual gives details on cam advance degrees as highlighted below

 

that some solid information Bill.

 

Unfortunately i dont have workshop license, only professional. 

I'm just wondering how far advanced I can go with "Closed throttle Exhaust cam angle"

 

[Roland@pcmtec]

I don't believe its possible to cause valve piston interference even if you tried due to the hard stop. I am not an engine builder though so maybe someone else can comment.

[BeerTurbo]

having a play with vct tonight, just to see if i could advance exhaust cam fully on decel to aid in possible decell flames.

the scallers for decel cam angle dident seem to change anything.

changing the angles in low low etc etc definatly got them moving, but i would prefer to work out how to make decel cam work instead.

for testing i saw a max of -10.4 or 63.7 degrees cam actual on the exhaust cam. within the paramaters i gave it, there was the ability to go more but it did not seem to like going past -10...so maybe thats where max is?

even just cruising and the exhaust cam at -10 you can smell alot of fuel leaving the exhaust.

[Roland@pcmtec]

The logic is a bit complicated as there is max overlap vs max exhaust cam and also max intake cam. You might have to adjust the intake cam position as well at light load high rpm to get it to do what you want. 

I believe there are some closed throttle scalars as well with load and tps that decide when it's in closed throttle mode. 

[BeerTurbo]

4 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

The logic is a bit complicated as there is max overlap vs max exhaust cam and also max intake cam. You might have to adjust the intake cam position as well at light load high rpm to get it to do what you want. 

I believe there are some closed throttle scalars as well with load and tps that decide when it's in closed throttle mode. 

yeah I had the intake set to 0 and requested overlap -15 and max overlap -15 and it was still sitting around that -10.

interesting enough it would do this at idle too , so it seemed to ignore the idle setting and go straight of the main tables.

 

the decel exh cam setting has a -18 option so tonight ill see if i can play with enough settings to see if it will go further... but also looking at max negative cells -10 does seem to be what factory uses.

 

i had a play with these last night as the way its worded i thought maybe vct will only go to closed throttle mode from 0-1300 rpm but i could be reading this wrong.

[Callum]

Howdy guys, not long purchased pcmtec pro to tune my ba xr6 turbo manual and wanted to give it some ghost cam along with my buddies bf mk2 xr6 na zf. My manual wasn't too hard at all and seems to work great however the bf I just couldn't get stable. Now matter how low I went in overlap it would hit overlap drop a heap of rpm then jump back up and just keep reving up and down. My ba xr6t very slightly does this only once or twice before settling fine with 30 overlap. Any input into what I might be doing wrong would be excellent. Tried fiddling with rpm but being auto going too high loads up the tc too much and too low and it'll stall. Loving the program guys excellent work 👌 

[Roland@pcmtec]

Is your cam timing oscillating? Show us a datalog of it happening and post the file up. 

It might be hitting the anti stall or the cam might be oscillating more than you want due to your load kicking it out of the overlap then back into it. 

If the cam is oscillating all you need to do is datalog what load and rpm it occurs at and adjust the cam timing there. 

If you find the rpm is dropping too low hitting the anti stall I would reduce the overlap and put -30 at say 600rpm as your own anti stall to stop it going that low. Anti stall kicks in at about 350rpm from memory. 

[Callum]

3 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

Is your cam timing oscillating? Show us a datalog of it happening and post the file up. 

It might be hitting the anti stall or the cam might be oscillating more than you want due to your load kicking it out of the overlap then back into it. 

If the cam is oscillating all you need to do is datalog what load and rpm it occurs at and adjust the cam timing there. 

If you find the rpm is dropping too low hitting the anti stall I would reduce the overlap and put -30 at say 600rpm as your own anti stall to stop it going that low. Anti stall kicks in at about 350rpm from memory. 

Thanks for the speedy response Rolland. Once I get some more time with his car I'll grab a log for you. Rn I have a more pressing diag issue I wanna sort with my ba xr6t but I will post that on diagnosis instead of here 🙂

[iitzHarro]

Hey guys ive been playing around with my ghost cams drive ability in my fg auto and ive noticed that i can leave auF0097 the load and rpm table completely stock so 0 and it will still pull the vct to 30 and that appears to be why im having issues in drive and car parks can anyone point me in the right direction as to why its ignoring the load table i cant work it lol cheers 

[overlap]

On 7/31/2018 at 4:23 PM, Roland@pcmtec said:

It is also recommended to disable LTFT when the ghost cam is active by adding this to your ghost cam tune. This will prevent closed loop fueling from maxing out adding fuel (auF0164)

Hi Roland, How do I add the auF0164 parameter to just my Ghost cam tune? Thanks 

[Roland@pcmtec]

12 hours ago, overlap said:

Hi Roland, How do I add the auF0164 parameter to just my Ghost cam tune? Thanks 

In the multi tune wizard search for auF0164 in the middle pane. Then press the right arrow button to add it to the tune you have selected for the ghost cam. Then in the editor set it it 0 for that tune slot. 

[05xtsleeper]

I doing ghost cam to a n/a different to turbo because I've followed this guide and seems not to work on my ba with HAAT3VC ?

Edited September 30, 2022 by 05xtsleeper

[Roland@pcmtec]

9 hours ago, 05xtsleeper said:

I doing ghost cam to a n/a different to turbo because I've followed this guide and seems not to work on my ba with HAAT3VC ?

Could you take a datalog showing the tp, rpm, commanded cam angles, angle error and cam source. 

Try touching the throttle a tiny tiny amount and set the ghost cam to work up to 1200 rpm and see if it works. That will see if it's the idle mode being the issue or not. 

[05xtsleeper]

I will try tomorrow morning and ill do a datalog and  get back to you.

[05xtsleeper]

Should a raise the idle or keep it as stock?

[05xtsleeper]

On 10/1/2022 at 6:59 AM, Roland@pcmtec said:

Could you take a datalog showing the tp, rpm, commanded cam angles, angle error and cam source. 

Try touching the throttle a tiny tiny amount and set the ghost cam to work up to 1200 rpm and see if it works. That will see if it's the idle mode being the issue or not. 

here are the  datalogs. i did what you said i made a new using using this guide 

 

it doesnt do it when the car starts i have to tap the pedel then it will gs but it goes back to smooth idle if i tap the pedal it will gs again 

GS TRY 2.teclogGS TRY 1Log.teclog

Edited October 3, 2022 by 05xtsleeper

[Roland@pcmtec]

Can you attach your .tec file and please add MID04853 CAM VCT Source to the datalog

In the logs you attached your car is very cold with ECT at 43c and EOT at 28c. You need the car to be at normal operating temperature for the VCT to function properly.

Get the car up to operating temperature before taking the next datalog and let us know what happens.

[jakka351]

On 10/3/2022 at 9:37 PM, 05xtsleeper said:

here are the  datalogs. i did what you said i made a new using using this guide 

 

it doesnt do it when the car starts i have to tap the pedel then it will gs but it goes back to smooth idle if i tap the pedal it will gs again 

GS TRY 2.teclog 59.3 kB · 1 download GS TRY 1Log.teclog 43.52 kB · 1 download

is this a 5.4 or 5.0?

[05xtsleeper]

4.0 

44 minutes ago, jakka351 said:

is this a 5.4 or 5.0?

 

[05xtsleeper]

1 hour ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

Can you attach your .tec file and please add MID04853 CAM VCT Source to the datalog

In the logs you attached your car is very cold with ECT at 43c and EOT at 28c. You need the car to be at normal operating temperature for the VCT to function properly.

Get the car up to operating temperature before taking the next datalog and let us know what happens.

I'll do that for you 

[05xtsleeper]

the .tec file your asking for would be my tune? HAAT3VC HACCEF8(RLR,RL,GS).tec

the car is usually cooler when its been driven on a normal day i waited till the first line GS TRY 4.teclogGS TRY 3.teclog

Edited October 5, 2022 by 05xtsleeper

[Roland@pcmtec]

Some fairly obvious problems here. TP never drops below 124 and your over lap map only requests 0 deg between 5-250 TP

I can't see engine RPM in your log but make sure you are idling above 900 rpm also. As soon as it dips below 900 its going to go back towards 0 overlap quickly. Tweak these numbers to suit your idle rpm and whether you want the stall recovery or not.

[05xtsleeper]

The car is idles is 1000rpm rpm like you suggested. Question this tp raw is that pedal?

[Roland@pcmtec]

Yes the raw a/d count from the etc (not pedal) as it is used for idle control. 

[05xtsleeper]

Tp raw is throttle body?? Whats normal range how can I  make it work as it should some n/a tunes 0-500 some are 0-250? 

[Roland@pcmtec]

7 hours ago, 05xtsleeper said:

Tp raw is throttle body?? Whats normal range how can I  make it work as it should some n/a tunes 0-500 some are 0-250? 

Yes raw ad count. 

Log what it is at idle and scale it to suit.

Wot is about 500 on most vehicles from memory. You want overlap at wot to assist building boost. 

[05xtsleeper]

I'll do that is there any thing else you want me to log? 

[05xtsleeper]

here is a datalog with rpm. the tp seems to say that the throttle is not closed?

GS TRY 5.teclog

[brenden]

Hi guys, is there anyone out there willing to throw some light on doing ghost cams on the V8 Mustangs? 

[Allan2483]

just so i understand with the oil temp cells the overlap wont start till that temperature is reached ?

[Cha]

Hey team, I've been playing around with ghost cams on my FG Barra. Sounds exactly how i want it in Park and Neutral however when i put it in Drive, the idle smooths out heaps and bassicaly the ghost cams non existence. What table do i need to change to stop it smoothing out so much?