codac

Hey mate, Definitely recommend getting an aftermarket dedicated knock listening device. I think the tuner nerd is a solid pick because you can set up the device to listen through headphones while driving and also have a knock indicator when you have set the baseline noise for the vehicle. I've used the Tuner Nerd on a few NA + T setups now with no issue. They are also priced pretty decently considering some other options on the market. Happy Tuning.

Bit late to the party here but just thought I'd commend the write up. I see a lot of falcon owners want to jump into camshafts, mainly just for lump but without actually realizing how much a sacrifice it can be on VCT, especially in lower power set ups where the stock system is plenty enough.

As Roland said, it's also very easy to hit high load on small turbos without much throttle input, cruising hills with moderate throttle in higher gears will do it. If you look at the ignition maps on factory turbo configurations you will notice low (<5 degrees) to negative timing cells on the far bottom left of the BLK table (positive pressure at low rpm). You won't know if it's safe without knock ears until the damage is already done. Knock will damage pistons and bend rods over time until a critical point is reached. My factory BF knock pulls timing on false knock all the time. Factory knock retard should only serve in an emergency and never as a tuning tool. Admittedly, for tuning your first NA motor it's difficult to know what timing to put where but as a generally consensus I think pulling 4 degrees from a turbo map serves effectively as a foundation, although I can only comment on my personal experience. Safe tuning!

Also just curious, what is your knock avg pulling then. A commanded spark of 1.5 with 7 in the BLK is quite a big jump. I run 6 and even with 0.5 knock average will only see it get at low as 4.5 when ECT BLK adder pulls a bit of timing. Might be due to the fact my lambda table is zeroed. Just ranting 😄

That looks good mate however I'd personally consider running less timing from the positive pressure load cells prior to 2500rpm to be safe, unless you can use knock ears to verify. You will still be able to hit those load cells on the street, for example wide throttle up a steep hill in a higher gear. This depends on turbo size too and the rest of the spark. I still manage to hit +1 load with the GTX3582 on moderate throttle uphill doing low rpm. Hence my timing is all extrapolated outside of most common load x rpm combinations.

Thought I'd add my two cents. My current ongoing project is a turbo converted NA BF motor out of a territory which has been rebuilt. The motor is bone stock except for a set of billet oil pump gears. It runs a GTX3582 @ 7psi externally gated through a 3 inch Plazmaman intake and 1000hp intercooler. I've tuned stock turbos on a couple motors and can definitely vouch for running a larger turbo on these NA motors as boost hits later and the internals see less low rpm torque which is a killer. To start tuning I removed 4 degrees from a turbo BLK table and zeroed spark adders for lambda, ECT and IAT. This timing proved knock free under all conditions with a stock base fuel table for my setup, mind you my IAT sits under 25 pretty much indefinitely. The car is still quick and responsive and I've added timing in areas where I want it. I haven't pushed it to knock at all on BP98 yet and I don't want to so my plan is to get it on E85 and push it to limit. Worse case scenario, rod throws and its off the road for a few days and $300 is spent on another one. I'd love to hear from people what they are running on these NA motors. Cheers!

Little update on the NA + T setup. Speed density has required some work (50mm screamer and cat-less otherwise stock) and now fueling looks really good, commanded and actual are almost identical everywhere. Since then I've started to add timing and leaned out fuel on the base table as for safety I had it quite rich in load areas to start with. As for timing I've added a few degrees to aid in response under boost and some timing in the top end after peak load hits. The current result is a pretty well responsive, knock-free fun drive every time. Have done at least 50 2nd gear pulls over the past few days (remote straight open roads) and has not skipped a beat. For being fresh off my P-plates this really feels like quite an achievement. I've chucked a small list below of what the cars supporting mods are/setup for anyone in a similar boat. Should get a power figure soon once it hits a dyno for a touch up on spark and a power run. BF NA Motor from a Territory with 120,000km in 08 xr6 with 4spd ion - Custom billet OPG and plate - Empire elite timing chain - Stock springs - Factory B series manifold - 1000hp Plazmaman IC and 3' piping kit - 4' CAI and custom Battery relocation - Custom fabricated 50mm external gate w/ screamer off rear housing - Factory dump center muffler and rear muffler with cat smashed - Transcooler and thermofan on switch - S5 solenoid mod - 255 walbro intank - Turbo 4 bar FPR - Turbo TMAP Tuning Equipment Tuner Nerd V3 Knock Detection AEM wideband running analog output via DLP in PCMtec (Digikey supported)

Just goes to show you how tough and resilient a bone stock barra can be. I just finished up on the NA conversion. Just a note for anyone else doing this on a stock setup, retarding large amounts of timing and enriching fuel for inital safety will result in difficult to control boost on the standard internal wastegate. Whilst this is unlikely to knock on safe timing it can cause huge boost spikes and creep so just something to be aware of. I ditched the small internal gate and fabricated a 90 degree 50mm steam pipe bend onto a spare housing with an external gate and screamer. As of now, I have the car on 8psi. Ive mad adjustments to speed density tables to get my commanded and actual pretty well perfect (stock injectors make this easy). I've started adding timing in certain areas. Over numerous small advancements from my initial safe timing the difference is quite significant from what it started with, both with how the car pulls and the actual timing numbers themselves, I just wanted to start safe as this is my first timing tuning and I don't have any data for reference. I've verified all changes with the tuner nerd knock monitor and on a good heatsoak to monitor any knock too. I'm putting together a greentop FG motor that I picked up for $350 too so hopefully that will be tuned on all 4's when I find a good gq patrol shell to run it in with a zf behind. As for now I'm doing my own custom studs and gears with backing plate, a set of springs and ACL race series big end and mains.

Hi all, I have followed this forum for nearly a couple years now and finally thought I'd post something as I'm sure there are plenty doing something similar to what I have. Before I start, it has been pretty bloody awesome being able to build and tune my first car from my garage, literally. There are some really informative post on here, 90% of which I've read in close detail and this has enabled me to undertake the iconic NA to Turbo conversion on my BF XR6. As of now I've retained the NA computer and swapped a BA turbo motor into the car and have been running 10psi on 98 with an NA ION box for the past 3 months without any dramas. I've invested in a wideband and Tuner Nerd knock monitor to assist with tuning on the street as best as I can. Getting a solid pull on the street without spin has been quite difficult so I am sure I have some room to improve but as of now fueling is on point and I'm very confident there is no knock on a full heat soak in this weather. I'll be getting rid of the Turbo motor and running a $400 BA NA motor to see what it's capable of on E85, but mainly it will be set up to daily 98 @ around 7psi. I'll probably just be doing valve springs and pump gears for now as I've seen quite a few people running high 10's and even low 20 psi without even removing the head (stock head bolts and gasket). I'm sure this should be fine as I doubt I'll push any more than 12-14psi. So, my questions for people who have done similar out there, what sort of power figures are people running on NA motors, in particular the BA's (weaker rods but lower compression). I understand there are differences throughout models (BA 9.7:1 and BF-FG 10.3:1 comp, cam lifts, etc), but correct me if I'm wrong, the BA NA and Turbos have the same rods, which is a common fail point from what I understand. I think my plan of attack will be more conservative timing in lower rpm where boost comes on, just to dampen that peak torque spike I'm sure we are all familiar with. I think running stock tyres for a bit of slip through peak torque should minimise the stress on the rods too. Cheers!