Closed loop fuel Disable issues

[effxr6t]

Having a few issues with closed loop fueling even when ive disabled as described in the HOW TO which didnt work.

This ecu doesn't have any o2 sensors wired to the pcm so it should allready run in open loop as they are basically the same as disconnecting the plug in the car

So to start i maxxed auF2504 to 36000s and auF0163 to 4096* but upon starting it still would start maxxing the trims out flooding it with fuel. 

After this didnt work i went back and set the closed loop delay to 36000 seconds which stopped it mostly but even after ~5mins it goes back into closed loop and again starts adding fuel. Ive also lowered the tps transition to try stop it but that did nothing.

If anyone has encountered this issue and has any solutions or ways to actually disable closed loop so it will run open loop 24/7. Its on a drift car and having to restart the car every 5 mins trying to tune it or driving it around the track is f@#%ed

Cheers for any help

[effxr6t]

Also if any of the guys from support see this could you check the support email i sent regarding the issue

[fordsrule]

I take it that you can't turn the sensor off?

[Roland@pcmtec]

Hi Brayden we did see your email. This is out side of the software technical support that we offer hence the delay in replying. Conversion cars are especially difficult which are more often than not electrical or mechanical issues which has primarily driven the decision to not offer any tuning support. We do offer support on the forums where possible but we don't want this to be the expectation. This is also a very odd scenario where you are running a SOHC AU motor with a BF PCM which was never its intended use. This aside we will have a look at it when time permits.

 

[effxr6t]

So if I find a mate with a bf turbo plug the ECU in and log the same issues will you look into it quicker?

[effxr6t]

So to run a quick check I just finnished going through each step on my missus ba turbo. 

Did them all in the same order as above 1 by one and also changed the base fuel table to .9 so I could see if it was in fact trimming fuel or not. And the results are none of the changes had any affect at all it would still engage closed loop 30-40 secs after starting the car.

 

Also I'm not sure if others have pointed it out but the latest 1.22 beta does not recognize early Ba pcms for read/write aswell as logging.

[Roland@pcmtec]

no closed loop targeting 1.0 lambda with no trimming.teclog

I've just followed the instructions and the vehicle targets 0.93 lambda at all times with no O2 trimming on our test BF Falcon.

Here is a screenshot of the log showing 0.93 lambda at 140 seconds, I left it idling for 5 minutes with the same result

Here is the log and the files.

3 tunes

PCMFEGA as read - no closed loop.tecPCMFEGA as read - no closed loop - base fuel 0.93.tecPCMFEGA as read - closed loop enabled.tec

3 Log files

no closed loop targetting 0.93 lambda with no trimming.teclogcold start open loop log transitioning into closed loop.teclog

Here are screenshots showing the values that we changed.

Some others which should not be necessary but shown anyway if you can try these.

auF12158 heater hardware present array

 

 

 

[Roland@pcmtec]

12 hours ago, effxr6t said:

Also I'm not sure if others have pointed it out but the latest 1.22 beta does not recognize early Ba pcms for read/write aswell as logging.

Yes it was reported and is fixed, fix will be uploaded today. Thanks for letting us know.

I will go over your logs shortly to see if I can see what the problem is.

[Roland@pcmtec]

14 hours ago, effxr6t said:

So if I find a mate with a bf turbo plug the ECU in and log the same issues will you look into it quicker?

We try to help where possible with tuning on the forums however our official stance will remain "no tuning advice". There are two major reasons for this.

Liability. If we give advice and someones breaks an engine then we are liable and our insurance does not cover this.

The software is a tool, we do not teach people how to tune, they need to already have experience or be undertaking training. If the expectation is we are to help people learn then there is simple not enough hours in the day and this is not a sustainable business model. Our competitors take the same stance. Haltech on the other hand  do offer a higher level of support if needed, they also charge $3-4k per car so this is feasible for them. We do not charge anywhere near this amount hence the support we officially offer is software related, eg how to use the compare tool, how to use the custom os wizard, datalogging, value files etc, but not specific tuning advice.

We are all tuners in our spare time however, so we do like to help the community especially with HOWTO Guides, but we don't want people to have the expectation that we offer one on one tuning advice beyond how to use the software.

One other thing to remember is we develop flash tuning software for existing Ford strategies, we don't write the control strategy and have to reverse engineer how it works. This means even we may not know how items work unless we put many hours into reverse engineering the control background. In most cases we can figure it out, but we are trying to absorb what was developed by likely 100s of engineers over a period of 20 years with zero documentation. This is incredibly difficult to do and there will be omissions from time to time or edge cases we are not aware of, eg there might be a reason why closed loop still enables in your case that we do not know the answer to. I will however look into your case in more detail.

[Roland@pcmtec]

@effxr6t can you do another log showing the issue with the following layout file loaded. I need to see the open loop flag and the o2 volts.

 

open loop layout.tlo

[effxr6t]

log attached showing the flag change.

 

Have you got an idea which flags i can log to work it which torque reduction is causing the cylinder cut also in the log. Its not very constistent sometimes it will engange for 1-2 seconds other times ~30seconds. I pressumed it had something to do with vct target error so i logged them and it stays at 0* so changed the target vct map but no chnage. Looking through the log it does change to exhaust/cat overtemp momentarily before cylinder cut but changing disbale cat protection had no effect.

26-03-2020 02-37-50 PM Log.teclog closed loop flag log.teclog

[Roland@pcmtec]

It looks like the car goes closed loop at the 10 minute mark from your log. That is too coincidental as 10 minutes ~ 600 seconds. I think the units are not actually seconds on some of those tables, they are actually clock tick which are an arbitary time value based off the microprocessor clock. Can you just put a huge number like 100000000 into those time delays? Eg anywhere that has 36000

[Roland@pcmtec]

16 minutes ago, effxr6t said:

log attached showing the flag change.

 

Have you got an idea which flags i can log to work it which torque reduction is causing the cylinder cut also in the log. Its not very constistent sometimes it will engange for 1-2 seconds other times ~30seconds. I pressumed it had something to do with vct target error so i logged them and it stays at 0* so changed the target vct map but no chnage. Looking through the log it does change to exhaust/cat overtemp momentarily before cylinder cut but changing disbale cat protection had no effect.

26-03-2020 02-37-50 PM Log.teclog closed loop flag log.teclog 466.41 kB · 1 download

Your log is missing TQ_SOURCE. This should show you the torque source during the cylinder cut.

[effxr6t]

changed the startup closed loop delay to 100000000secs and it still engages at around the same time i thought it was about 5mins so i put the timer on my phone from when it fired to closed loop popping up it was 4min 16 seconds

 

edit: after the change to 100000000seconds on the open loop delay it also never engaged cylinder cut like it allways will so. ive logged torque source previously and it never changed off driver demand

26-03-2020 02-58-43 PM Log.teclog 4min 16secs after startup closde loop.teclog

Edited March 26, 2020 by effxr6t

[Roland@pcmtec]

4 minutes ago, effxr6t said:

changed the startup closed loop delay to 100000000secs and it still engages at around the same time i thought it was about 5mins so i put the timer on my phone from when it fired to closed loop popping up it was 4min 16 seconds

Did you change both of the timers? Eg auF2504 and auF0162 ?

If you can change both timers then upload the file with a log here. Also if you can log TQ_SOURCE when the cylinder cut out occurs. That log layout file attached should be good for both logs.

[effxr6t]

No ill change them now and try it again 

[Roland@pcmtec]

If changing both timers does not work you can work around it another way by setting the min/max LTFT trim values to be 1.00, then even when it is enabled it can't add or subtract more than 0. I'd like to resolve the actual issue first though.

Can you upload your file after the test as well.

[effxr6t]

still engages at same point 4min and 16 seconds on my timer. but on the plus side it hasnt once engaged cylinder cut since these 2 changes even giving it some big revs it never once shut cylinders so thats a positive

Auf2504 0163 timer and temp change.teclog HACCEG3.tec drifter 26-03-2020d.tec closed loop problems no cylinder cut.tec

[effxr6t]

Do you think changing 0164 will disable ltft all together or only disable the flag to say if its trimming. ill try changing the min max now and test again

[Roland@pcmtec]

I never even knew that existed. I've gone through the logic and auF0164 should indeed turn everything off from the code I can see, it will hard code ltft o 1.0 for both banks (The current LTFT).

[effxr6t]

neither until you mentioned the min/max so i searched ltft in the navigator and thought about switching it. 

i just tried changing 0170 to -10 ad counts and 0169 to 5 but no change it still enganged after 4min again.

ill change the ltft switch and try now

[effxr6t]

Tried the long term switch but nope still engages but as i was driving it i did notice it only engages whilst its at idle and under the idle ignition control so maybee there is something in the code with the idle ignition control that forces closed loop over the top of everything else

[Roland@pcmtec]

So far I've tried all the items you mentioned on there own and they work on our test BF. I don't see how the LTFT master switch would not work. Can you send me a log with the LTFT master turned off?

Also can you try setting the min/max learning limits to 1.0, 0.0

[effxr6t]

I'll go try it again soon. I also noticed that the lamfinal stopped at .749 lambda and added 2ms of injections time but I've looked through every trim i could trying to find a scalar that allowed this much trim at idle but couldn't find anything.

[CalFlyheight]

just a chime in, but im running a BA turbo with monstrous boost levels and big camshafts so im choosing to run open loop full time

set auF2543 FUEL OVRD SWITCH to  1

make sure auF1545 FUEL OLCL SWITCH is set at  1

bang full time open loop

Edited March 29, 2020 by CalFlyheight