Dolan Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Hey, I’ve just been out road tuning my XR6 Turbo and can’t get any more power out of it. I’m not sure what info to provide but if I do 2 runs, one at 20psi and one at 25psi with the only differences being the timing is retarded around 2° it still won’t make more power. 20psi - 0.80 lambda - 16° 25psi - 0.80 lambda - 14.5° Both runs are from 3.5k - 6k rpm I’ve just put it back to 20psi for now until I figure out what the issue is. Any feedback is greatly appreciated, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 What turbo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolan Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 It’s a Pulsar 3584 I do get a DTC fault sometimes when I’m on high load for over 2 seconds or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Have you got a datalog showing map, throttle and torque source? What is your afr showing What is the Dtc fault? Is your fuel pressure ok? Checked for intake leaks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolan Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 I've attached the log that shows all those params, sorry its in csv. AFR is shown as DLP1_EQU in the log, its running at 0.80 lambda or 11.76 afr Not sure what the dtc fault is, but it happens when I'm at high load and the dash seems to disconnect. When it happens and I'm below 80ks range it'll show the low fuel warning and say like 72km remaining. And the instant fuel economy will not work for around 10 seconds and then it'll show up again. Yeah fuel pressure is good I haven't checked for intake leaks 21-08-2021 03-53-19 PM Log.csv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 What fuel is it on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolan Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 It’s on e85 atm I think my issue is my turbo is running out and my analogue boost gauge shows 25 psi while pcmtec and my obd-2 logger shows 21-22 psi I’ll have to look into that a bit more cause that sounds like what’s happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 You really need a dyno to figure out if you're getting more power or not. You should be getting about 15 to 20rwkw per degree of timing and about 10 to 15rwkw per psi. It sounds like you are pretty much swapping your timing for boost and seeing no difference. On E85 I ran about 17 degrees of timing at 25psi on a built motor with that turbo and it made 495awkw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolan Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 Hey you’ve got a very good point there, I will have to get it on a dyno. I also see what you mean by pretty much swapping boost for timing Thanks for the info on what your running I’ll take that into account when I’m getting timing and boost setup. What afr are you targeting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 I'm happy to run (petrol scale) 12:1 to 12.3:1 up to about 30psi/600kw and try to get it at 12:1 above that. You make more power at 12.5:1 but repeated runs on the dyno or road isn't the best idea for cylinder temps. I would back out of a run if I saw 13:1 or a sustained period above 12.5:1. Again there is a 10 to 20kw difference when running richer or leaner. Road tuning should really be done conservatively and care should be taken with a stock motor when deciding how fast to ramp in the boost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolan Posted August 22, 2021 Author Share Posted August 22, 2021 Thanks, I'm running 11.8 (0.80 lambda) on E85 at the moment but I'm still a little scared to go leaner. I've upped my timing a fair bit and have heard no knock until around 17-18 deg so I'm pretty happy with that. I think I've found out my issue for the datalogging showing ~22 psi and my boost guage showing ~24 psi. I think I need to get another boost sensor and follow the directions in HOWTO: Custom OS TMAP Switch over logic - Eg run 4+ bar of boost with a 2 bar map sensor. Is the TMAP sensor the one in the manifold and the boost sensor the one just before the throttle body? Do I only have to change the boost sensor and use the custom os to switch between them at a specific boost threshold? Also I was looking at the datalog and saw the IAP parameter go from 70.9 in/hg to 29.8 in/hg and stay there until I let off. That would have to do with it being over its limit wouldn't it? Ps. My boost didn't go over 25psi, my fuel didn't lean out past 0.82 and I didn't hear any knock so my engine is still okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 The datalogging shows 257kpa cos that's where the stock tmap maxes out. The tmap is the one in the manifold and the boost sensor is the one in the pipe. You only need to swap the boost sensor and then you can use the custom os to swap it at 3.5V or whatever. Have you got a built motor? A stock one won't like 25psi very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 On 8/22/2021 at 9:21 PM, Dolan said: Thanks, I'm running 11.8 (0.80 lambda) on E85 at the moment but I'm still a little scared to go leaner. I've upped my timing a fair bit and have heard no knock until around 17-18 deg so I'm pretty happy with that. I think I've found out my issue for the datalogging showing ~22 psi and my boost guage showing ~24 psi. I think I need to get another boost sensor and follow the directions in HOWTO: Custom OS TMAP Switch over logic - Eg run 4+ bar of boost with a 2 bar map sensor. Is the TMAP sensor the one in the manifold and the boost sensor the one just before the throttle body? Do I only have to change the boost sensor and use the custom os to switch between them at a specific boost threshold? Also I was looking at the datalog and saw the IAP parameter go from 70.9 in/hg to 29.8 in/hg and stay there until I let off. That would have to do with it being over its limit wouldn't it? Ps. My boost didn't go over 25psi, my fuel didn't lean out past 0.82 and I didn't hear any knock so my engine is still okay. If you are pegging your tmap you will be slightly lean even if the wideband doesn't show it, there is no doubt about it. To use the switch over logic you simply install a 4 bar boost sensor, we recommend Ti Performance and Independent Motorsport as they will both supply you with offset + slope values so you don't have to stuff around calibrating it. The IAP going to 29.8 is because it would have gone into failure mode (29.8 is 101kpa eg atmospheric). We HIGHLY recommend you leave the standard overboost logic so that if this does occur the vehicle goes into a limp mode or at least pulls wastegate duty cycle. This may save your engine if you have a boost control failure. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Yeah you gotta have some overboost protection or you might just hit 45 in the mid...ask me how I know 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolan Posted August 24, 2021 Author Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Puffwagon said: The datalogging shows 257kpa cos that's where the stock tmap maxes out. The tmap is the one in the manifold and the boost sensor is the one in the pipe. 56 minutes ago, Roland@pcmtec said: If you are pegging your tmap you will be slightly lean even if the wideband doesn't show it, there is no doubt about it. To use the switch over logic you simply install a 4 bar boost sensor, we recommend Ti Performance and Independent Motorsport as they will both supply you with offset + slope values so you don't have to stuff around calibrating it. I ordered a 4 bar boost sensor from Independent Motorsports and they shipped it within the day which was awesome. I called them up and asked if they had the parameter file but they said they didn't have it. I ended up using the same parameters that @Roland@pcmtec used in his how-to guide and tested it against the TMAP sensor on boost and they matched perfectly. 1 hour ago, Puffwagon said: Have you got a built motor? A stock one won't like 25psi very much. No I don't have one yet, I'm gonna keep it at 22 psi until I get it on a dyno. I'll probably go to either Seres Engineering or Maxx depending on who has some free time after lockdown. 1 hour ago, Roland@pcmtec said: The IAP going to 29.8 is because it would have gone into failure mode (29.8 is 101kpa eg atmospheric). We HIGHLY recommend you leave the standard overboost logic so that if this does occur the vehicle goes into a limp mode or at least pulls wastegate duty cycle. This may save your engine if you have a boost control failure. Yeah that'd probably be the reason I was getting DTC faults when I was at high boost. I haven't touched any engine protection features, if I setup the target boost properly and ends up boosting over that by a certain amount it should go into limp mode shouldn't it? 1 hour ago, Puffwagon said: Yeah you gotta have some overboost protection or you might just hit 45 in the mid...ask me how I know Yikes, I'm guessing you blew a motor doing that 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Stathi does have a parameter file, maybe they just didn't have it on hand? Send them an email, let them know you bought it from them and they should sort you out. If you get stuck I'll give you the file they gave to me. It's not very hard to work out how to scale it so you can always figure that out and get it working the way you want. It didn't blow my motor as it is built but it did break a rocker arm tho. I routinely run 35 to 40psi and so far haven't had many issues. I swapped out the mls head gasket for an athena gasket but apart from those 2 things the engine has been going strong for over a year now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolan Posted August 24, 2021 Author Share Posted August 24, 2021 Yeah must of just been one of the guys I talked to who probably didn't know what it was, either way I got it setup pretty easily. Oh thank god, that would've been a lot of force to break a rocker arm lol. That's very good, what trans do you have in it, and what's been done to the engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Yeah sweet. The trans was stock with just a tune and a bigger oil cooler. It handled it fairly well and for a long time, all things considered. It recently broke the input shaft but should have it sorted in a few weeks. There is a thread here where I fairly extensively document the build and progression from about 370awkw to 711awkw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolan Posted August 25, 2021 Author Share Posted August 25, 2021 How tf did it handle over 700 kw at all, I'm actually amazed. I guess you had a lot of mechanical sympathy. That thread is a good read thanks for sharing! Hopefully you get it back on the road soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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