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2009 fgxr6t tune safe?


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On 12/15/2022 at 9:02 PM, taylorsamuel790@gmail.com said:

was just wondering if someone could have a look at my tune and tell me if there is anything ridiculously wrong that could make everything go bang lol.. very new to this sorta stuff any feedback would be good preferably feedback thats useful not annoying. cheers sammy

HAEDLL86969.tec 1.03 MB · 6 downloads

Hi Mate , what’s your setup ? 

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10 hours ago, taylorsamuel790@gmail.com said:

sorry mate once again im a newbie haha setup as in just what bolt ons or?

Sorry for the late reply, on holidays lol! All good ! 
yea like what car xr6 turbo ? What year ? What trans ? 
what injectors , intercooler , fuel pump , head studs , oil pump gears etc ? 
 

What’s your goals too? 
regards Graham.

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19 hours ago, Plumbs said:

Hi Mate , what’s your setup ? 

Na no stress mate enjoy em while they last haha 

and I got a 2009 fg xr6 turbo

has the zf 6 speed auto with aftermarket trans cooler

1250cc sonic 3/4 injectors 

walboro 460 fuel pump 

Pulsar next gen psr3584 turbo with Turbosmart 12psi internal actuator 

4 inch dump into 4 inch high flow cat then just middle muffler delet after that

4 inch turbo side intake

Autotecnica big intercooler and stage 2 intercooler piping 

ummmm shit I’m pretty sure that’s the lot mate 

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There are multiple issues there that need addressing in the tune. In order from top to bottom;

 

Your A/C WOT disable time should be longer, leave it stock.

Your CFC delay is miles too long. It's wasting fuel running it like this. Even just a few seconds is enough to blast a fat flame when you lift off the throttle.

You have an engine light come on for your fuel level sender, you normally wouldn't touch this.

Your fuel base startup delay is 3 minutes, this can stay stock.

Your stoich value is 12.64, likely this is a typo from whoever tuned it, it should stay stock for 98 fuel.

The injectors aren't scaled correctly.

You have MAF fuel trim updates on, no reason to have it on.

The closed loop O2 temp has been altered, there is no reason to have this changed. You can force open loop differently if this was the intended outcome.

The PATS switch is off, no reason for this.

The torque module is switched off.

The torque requestors are set up so you can stall up the car on the brake, be careful not to snap your tail-shaft, the FG's do this.

Your engine speed at stall has been changed, this can stay stock.

The speed limit has been changed for no VID block yet the VID block is enabled.

Your boost control isn't setup for your new actuator.

 

I haven't mentioned every tuned thing cos some things have very little effect. To answer the title of the thread, no the tune is not safe and the car should not be brought onto boost or driven hard until it is fixed.

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24 minutes ago, Puffwagon said:

There are multiple issues there that need addressing in the tune. In order from top to bottom;

 

Your A/C WOT disable time should be longer, leave it stock.

Your CFC delay is miles too long. It's wasting fuel running it like this. Even just a few seconds is enough to blast a fat flame when you lift off the throttle.

You have an engine light come on for your fuel level sender, you normally wouldn't touch this.

Your fuel base startup delay is 3 minutes, this can stay stock.

Your stoich value is 12.64, likely this is a typo from whoever tuned it, it should stay stock for 98 fuel.

The injectors aren't scaled correctly.

You have MAF fuel trim updates on, no reason to have it on.

The closed loop O2 temp has been altered, there is no reason to have this changed. You can force open loop differently if this was the intended outcome.

The PATS switch is off, no reason for this.

The torque module is switched off.

The torque requestors are set up so you can stall up the car on the brake, be careful not to snap your tail-shaft, the FG's do this.

Your engine speed at stall has been changed, this can stay stock.

The speed limit has been changed for no VID block yet the VID block is enabled.

Your boost control isn't setup for your new actuator.

 

I haven't mentioned every tuned thing cos some things have very little effect. To answer the title of the thread, no the tune is not safe and the car should not be brought onto boost or driven hard until it is fixed.

Yeah , what he said ! Honestly! Puff is one of the best around here ! I’m glad he jumped in ! 
 
I’ll sus out your timing but if puff has looked at it . Must be alright! 
regards Graham!

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Haha cheers Graham, dunno about being one of the best tho. The borderline knock map is stock. Due to the other issues around boost control, I kept my commentary to a minimum, so didn't elaborate on things that weren't tuned or dangerous. You're right tho, once it is ironed out the timing will need addressing to compliment the rest of the tune and the vehicle mods.

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32 minutes ago, Puffwagon said:

There are multiple issues there that need addressing in the tune. In order from top to bottom;

 

Your A/C WOT disable time should be longer, leave it stock.

Your CFC delay is miles too long. It's wasting fuel running it like this. Even just a few seconds is enough to blast a fat flame when you lift off the throttle.

You have an engine light come on for your fuel level sender, you normally wouldn't touch this.

Your fuel base startup delay is 3 minutes, this can stay stock.

Your stoich value is 12.64, likely this is a typo from whoever tuned it, it should stay stock for 98 fuel.

The injectors aren't scaled correctly.

You have MAF fuel trim updates on, no reason to have it on.

The closed loop O2 temp has been altered, there is no reason to have this changed. You can force open loop differently if this was the intended outcome.

The PATS switch is off, no reason for this.

The torque module is switched off.

The torque requestors are set up so you can stall up the car on the brake, be careful not to snap your tail-shaft, the FG's do this.

Your engine speed at stall has been changed, this can stay stock.

The speed limit has been changed for no VID block yet the VID block is enabled.

Your boost control isn't setup for your new actuator.

 

I haven't mentioned every tuned thing cos some things have very little effect. To answer the title of the thread, no the tune is not safe and the car should not be brought onto boost or driven hard until it is fixed.

yeah well shes a bit sick in the head then the old girl hahahha na appreciate the feedback mate i really do sounds like ya definitely know your shit if i need any more help ill definitely get on to you if i get to annoying just tell me to piss off haha thanks again

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Best thing to do is ask questions on the forum man. There quite a few people who know a fair bit of stuff and then I wont have to answer a million questions lol. Some days I just need a blank wall and a full beer to stare at with nothing car related 😅There's plenty of specific info on the how to sections of the forum.

It's a long process to become good at anything really, so read up, smash the google search for anything and everything and when you get stuck, post up and you will have that little bit extra that someone might be able to help with.

I'll explain one thing tho, the A/C WOT disable time is to switch the aircon off while you floor it. It gives that little bit extra power and doesn't flog the A/C compressor too hard. The stock value is 12s which it pretty much what a stock car will do in the 1/4 or very nearly. If you have it switch on at 6 seconds like yours is, it will be right at the top of second gear, revving it's tit's off, then the A/C compressor will engage. The clutch in the A/C compressor won't like that much and the compressor will go from 0rpm to 6500rpm nearly instantly. It'll stress the compressor, it'll stress your serpentine belt, it'll wear out the belt tensioner and idler pulley quicker, it'll add wear to your harmonic balancer and it'll slow your car down when you're trying to go flat out. Moving it up to 14s is a much better idea than halving it, even leaving it stock would be fine. Last but not least, as long as you are aware what the timer is set to you can drive your car accordingly for best mechanical sympathy.

If it all seems a bit much you can get a decent tune around the 1k mark which should have you pretty well sorted.

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1 hour ago, Puffwagon said:

Haha cheers Graham, dunno about being one of the best tho. The borderline knock map is stock. Due to the other issues around boost control, I kept my commentary to a minimum, so didn't elaborate on things that weren't tuned or dangerous. You're right tho, once it is ironed out the timing will need addressing to compliment the rest of the tune and the vehicle mods.

Ok, can u help me explain Puff and see if I get this right? for injector scaling, if you don't know the info there is a way to get it close. Hopefully I get this right? You will need a wideband af gauge. In open loop which is going back and forth from about 14.5 to 15.3. So at idle adjust your low slope till you get stoichiometric which is what is being commanded on your base fuel table. Maybe best way is to drop your boost spring to 7 psi. In the turbo smart actuator there is 2 springs a big one and a small one. Can't remember which one? but tuning at 5 or 7 psi (5+7=12) is a lot more forgiving than at 12. once that is sorted get your duty cycles to gate pressure (5 psi is better).

Learning with less boost is best! Force into close loop lambda eg .80 or about 12:1 is what you are looking for. So, try short pull about 50to 70% throttle come on boost about 3 to psi and see if the fueling is what is being commanded? trial and error. Keep mucking with your low slope, breakpoint and then work up to high slope runs with more boost. Thing is not sure with those injectors whether you will see it go into high slope till u get into more boost because of the size of the injectors and also when your breakpoint is set? Your speed density should be sweet, so if you get your injector data to what you're commanding you will be right. Must be very careful and build up on your runs and boost. I think if you can get the injector data from the makers at 4 bar (the pressure of a turbo fuel reg) this will make the whole process so much easier for you.

Datalog everything, watch out for knock and just trial error from there. Sometimes it's easier to do than for me to explain especially as I've only been tuning at ammeter level past 12 months, but I love to try and help as I was in the same spot.

Am I Close Puff?

 

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Just now, Puffwagon said:

Best thing to do is ask questions on the forum man. There quite a few people who know a fair bit of stuff and then I wont have to answer a million questions lol. Some days I just need a blank wall and a full beer to stare at with nothing car related 😅There's plenty of specific info on the how to sections of the forum.

It's a long process to become good at anything really, so read up, smash the google search for anything and everything and when you get stuck, post up and you will have that little bit extra that someone might be able to help with.

I'll explain one thing tho, the A/C WOT disable time is to switch the aircon off while you floor it. It gives that little bit extra power and doesn't flog the A/C compressor too hard. The stock value is 12s which it pretty much what a stock car will do in the 1/4 or very nearly. If you have it switch on at 6 seconds like yours is, it will be right at the top of second gear, revving it's tit's off, then the A/C compressor will engage. The clutch in the A/C compressor won't like that much and the compressor will go from 0rpm to 6500rpm nearly instantly. It'll stress the compressor, it'll stress your serpentine belt, it'll wear out the belt tensioner and idler pulley quicker, it'll add wear to your harmonic balancer and it'll slow your car down when you're trying to go flat out. Moving it up to 14s is a much better idea than halving it, even leaving it stock would be fine. Last but not least, as long as you are aware what the timer is set to you can drive your car accordingly for best mechanical sympathy.

If it all seems a bit much you can get a decent tune around the 1k mark which should have you pretty well sorted.

alright so i apologize in advance but i have a question for ya already only one tho hahah its about the injector scaling.. whats my best option there? can you give me a round about base line data to put in there or something? or whats the best way to go about it in a simple persons kinda way? haha

 

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I'm on mobile now (until I fired up the laptop) so yerp

This part was for Graham...

I adjust injector slopes in the driveway then fine tune it on the road. Use the open loop switch to force it into open loop, have the entire base fuel table set to 0.82, now you can adjust the slopes to get 0.82 on the gauge. You can stall it up enough on the brake to get into the high slope so it's a fairly quick and easy process.

After that, put it back into closed loop, put the base table back and check it. A few 4000rpm runs up and down the road is all you need to verify the slopes.

You can verify the low slope with the fuel trims after you switch it back to closed loop, there are other factors that can change the afr reading but let's stick to what we're talking about.

The "loop" in open and closed loop refers to the feedback circuit, in this case we're talking about the O2 sensor. Open loop has no feedback, closed loop has feedback. I only mention that cos you had it back to front.

 

And for the rest of the post, the high slope for those injectors was around 105 lb/hr but I am sure I was chasing a low fuel pressure at the time so yerp, the data was only good for that setup at that time. I also note that your dead times are about 10% lower than what I was using so this will affect the slopes. The method I described up top is very easy to do when you know how to navigate the PCMTec software and understand what I'm talking about.

As a start, watch your fuel trim in the log and see where it is. At idle you want it less than 5% and at cruise about the same. A little bit more doesn't really matter but if you're seeing more than 10% it's time to address it. It's not the end of the world to have 10% trims but you will be able to get it better than that. With time you'll get it down to a couple of %.

I know that probably doesn't sound very simple and for that I too apologise. There's isn't much simple to tuning etc unfortunately.

Edited by Puffwagon
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22 minutes ago, Plumbs said:

Some one must have done this to cheat the injector data ? 

Looks like that's a possibility hey.

With how complicated it is for a beginner to swap everything over or refudge it so to speak, I wouldn't want to recommend any one single change without someone available to ensure the engine stays at least as safe as it is.

As we both know a 20% reduction in fuel from a stoich change isn't something you would do without the corresponding slope changes implemented at the same time.

Thinking back on other posts, I understand why some tuners would rather say nothing at all on the forums, it's not for their hip pocket, it's a matter of giving people info they may use incorrectly and in turn damage their engine.

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On 12/27/2022 at 5:12 PM, Puffwagon said:

I'm on mobile now (until I fired up the laptop) so yerp

This part was for Graham...

I adjust injector slopes in the driveway then fine tune it on the road. Use the open loop switch to force it into open loop, have the entire base fuel table set to 0.82, now you can adjust the slopes to get 0.82 on the gauge. You can stall it up enough on the brake to get into the high slope so it's a fairly quick and easy process.

After that, put it back into closed loop, put the base table back and check it. A few 4000rpm runs up and down the road is all you need to verify the slopes.

You can verify the low slope with the fuel trims after you switch it back to closed loop, there are other factors that can change the afr reading but let's stick to what we're talking about.

The "loop" in open and closed loop refers to the feedback circuit, in this case we're talking about the O2 sensor. Open loop has no feedback, closed loop has feedback. I only mention that cos you had it back to front.

 

And for the rest of the post, the high slope for those injectors was around 105 lb/hr but I am sure I was chasing a low fuel pressure at the time so yerp, the data was only good for that setup at that time. I also note that your dead times are about 10% lower than what I was using so this will affect the slopes. The method I described up top is very easy to do when you know how to navigate the PCMTec software and understand what I'm talking about.

As a start, watch your fuel trim in the log and see where it is. At idle you want it less than 5% and at cruise about the same. A little bit more doesn't really matter but if you're seeing more than 10% it's time to address it. It's not the end of the world to have 10% trims but you will be able to get it better than that. With time you'll get it down to a couple of %.

I know that probably doesn't sound very simple and for that I too apologise. There's isn't much simple to tuning etc unfortunately.

Hi Puff , can u use open loop to close loop trans to force open loop by changing out the table to 500 ad counts ? ( ad = analogue to digital) or is there a switch like you were saying ? I had a look but couldn’t find anything? Also how do u set up your breakpoint as well ? Regards Graham. 

070A3FD9-BF7F-4071-B4F8-353ABFBDE106.jpeg

Edited by Plumbs
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Yes that table is the tps input for switching from closed loop to open loop, aka the base fuel table. There is also a switch that will force open loop. There is a flag (1 or 0) you can use in the log to see when it is in open or closed loop.

I'm already being told off for not watching tv with the missus so gotta go 🙃

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8 minutes ago, Puffwagon said:

Yes that table is the tps input for switching from closed loop to open loop, aka the base fuel table. There is also a switch that will force open loop. There is a flag (1 or 0) you can use in the log to see when it is in open or closed loop.

I'm already being told off for not watching tv with the missus so gotta go 🙃

lol ok thanks , betta let u go.

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