TCM ZF FG Is it the same for NA and Turbo?

[Jase]

Hi. I have done a awsome FG NA conversion to turbo. I have just purchased a ZF Turbo box from a XR6T wreck and am wondering if I should remove the TCM from my NA ZF 6 speed and put it in the Turbo ZF ?? or should I use the TCM in the Turbo box and pair it up with PCMTec ??

I have done all the tuning already with PCMTec and the standard NA box is now not coping with WOT gear changes, It gets stuck in first and just bounces off the rev limiter until I lift my foot. Is the TCM same for NA and Turbo ??

Thanks in advance.

[Bill]

If they are both FG, you don't need to swap the TCM. Use the create/merge function to create a file & reprogram the new one

[Jase]

Yes. Both FG MK1. Really that easy.......... ok thankyou. I will post up how it all goes when the Turbo Trans arrives. 

Appreciate the advice.

[Bill]

15 minutes ago, Jase said:

Yes. Both FG MK1. Really that easy.......... ok thankyou. I will post up how it all goes when the Turbo Trans arrives. 

Appreciate the advice.

Not a problem

[Puffwagon]

This may or may not be obvious but don't flash the na calibration into the turbo box, it already has a turbo calibration in it.

[Jase]

Ok. No I didnt know that and appreciate the advice, thank you.  So when I install the new Turbo trans and reconnect the battery, Turn the key.. What will I need to actually do??

I was expecting a transmission fault etc. Then needing to either change the TCM from my NA trans to the new Turbo trans or pair the new TCM in PCMTec to my car.

All advice is very much appreciate..

[Bill]

41 minutes ago, Jase said:

Ok. No I didnt know that and appreciate the advice, thank you.  So when I install the new Turbo trans and reconnect the battery, Turn the key.. What will I need to actually do??

I was expecting a transmission fault etc. Then needing to either change the TCM from my NA trans to the new Turbo trans or pair the new TCM in PCMTec to my car.

All advice is very much appreciate..

If you're extremely lucky, ZF03987 and auF1692 will be the same values. If they're not, there's some info here on changing the PCM scalar & hoping it'll work.
 

 

[Puffwagon]

You wanna merge the serial number from the old tcm to the new tcm. There are a couple of ways to do this but the quickest way is already on the forum.

Open PCMTec, click Calibration Tools, click Create Stock File/Calibration Merge, then click Manually Merge Vid/Serial. You can see the various parts that can be swapped between files.

[Roland@pcmtec]

There is now a built in feature when flashing a vehicle where it will auto merge the serial at flash time(if the serial doesn't match) and prompt you to relicense. Saves a bit of time. 

[Jase]

Thanks so much for all the advice. Trans came today so hopefully have it all squared away by tomorrow afternoon. I have found PCMTec to be very user friendly so far, so with this great advice I should be all good (fingers crossed).

[Jase]

Hey guys. Sorry for the questions again. So I installed the Turbo Trans easy....

But then the fun started, so as expected transmission fault on the dash. Plugged in and did a read on the TCM and saved the file. Then as per the help you gave me , went into manually merge serial. Loaded file 1 as the Turbo TCM I just read from the car, Loaded file 2 as my last TCM file. Then import TCM serial from file 2 across to file 1. All good. Then saved the new TCM file. Then opened the saved file and checked all good with the serial number etc, then went to write it to the vehicle and get the message captured below.

[Jase]

I choose yes and it loaded to the car. But after everthing I still have transmission fault...

looked up the DTC and its software not compatible with pcm.

I knew the easy part would be fitting it...

Sorry if I am missing something simple. Any help would be extremly welcome to me.

Thanks guys, Jason.

[Puffwagon]

Maybe you do need to flash the calibration over too. According to a workshop manual it specifically says the calibration isn't matching when you have the U0301 code. If it works you will need to go through and change all the parameters to what the turbo box had in it.

If that or other suggestions don't work, it's a fairly quick, albeit messy process to swap the TCM over.

[Jase]

Yes. Good news. I did move my complete TCM file over to the new one and now all is good. I did have to do a reset module in Forescan after, then amazingly no faults and everthing is happy. I will now go through all the differences and manually change them in my old TCM file. And load it across.

Happy is me......

Thanks to everone again. Absolutely love PCMTec.

[Puffwagon]

Nice work mate. It's good when stuff resolves easily, has to happen sometimes hey!

[Bill]

You'll usually find that if you change auF1692 to match ZF03987, the mismatch is resolved.

[Puffwagon]

So it could have just been one parameter rather than the whole calibration?

The thread I linked says as much.

[Bill]

10 hours ago, Puffwagon said:

So it could have just been one parameter rather than the whole calibration?

The thread I linked says as much.

Yes, the one parameter can be enough to fix the issue. @Jase could still try it if he wanted to use the turbo ZF calibration & if it doesn't work, change it back.

You have to go to the thread "ZF Transmission swaps" to find the info on changing auF1692 to match ZF03987.

[Puffwagon]

It's worth a try, there's plenty of stuff that is different between an NA and a turbo tune.

[Jase]

Thanks again guys. I will give it a go tomorrow for sure and report back my findings.

All working sweet with the old NA tune file and changed all I can see from the Turbo tune across. But will do what you have suggested to the Turbo stock tune file and see how it works. Nothing to lose now as I can just go back to what I have done now.

Cheers guys. Jason.

[Jase]

Hey Guys. Hoping for some more help. I have checked the auF1692 to match ZF03987. And they are both 4, So I guess they match but still cannot use the Turbo tune, same transmission fault.... So I copied my NA tune back after painstakingly going through pretty much every parameter and changing them to match the Turbo tune.

Everything is great, except I have the same problem as with the NA box. I hard run from stand still WOT and the trans wont shift out of first and engine just bounces off the rev limiter until I lift my foot a bit then it all goes back to normal and shifts ( same if trying to do it in manual shift mode ). If I do the same standing start with only around 80% throttle trans works perfectly.

Also after the run and it is staying in first gear launch at WOT, if I scan for fault codes it comes back with "P0701 Transmission control system - range/performance "

Which is what I was getting before when I had the NA ZF box in the car. I changed to the Turbo ZF because of this and thought I was just going past the limits of the NA box..

But now still the same thing. So only thing the same really is the NA tune is on the Turbo TCM now.. Must be something in the tune that is triggering it??

What do you think??

Thanks in advance. Jason.

[Puffwagon]

2 hours ago, Jase said:

So I copied my NA tune back after painstakingly going through pretty much every parameter and changing them to match the Turbo tune.

You can do this very quickly with the compare and apply function. You literally click every box on the compare side that you want, then hit apply and it swaps them all at once.

Can you post up the turbo tcm tune and the na tcm tune so we can have a look?

[Jase]

Live and Learn hey.... Yes that would have been much easier than the way I did it.. Appreciate the Knowledge very much. below are the origial ZF Turbo tune.

And my NA tune that works with the new Turbo TCM in the car.

Thanks.

Original Turbo TCM file.tec First TCM Turbo file working.tec

[Puffwagon]

Will have a look tomorrow and see what I can come up with.

I recently bought a zf vehicle that had a solenoid fault in the trans and was stuck in 3rd aka limp mode. After swapping the solenoids over and filling the trans it wouldn't shift in auto mode, only manually for the first 10 minutes of driving or so. Then after a while it would shift gently but not at wot, same as yours. I got more fluid into it and it started shifting properly. That might have nothing to do with your car but at the very least it's worth making sure the fluid level is correct. Fill from dead cold, not at temp like the manual suggests.

While I'm writing stuff, you can log what shift maps the trans uses while driving and you can adjust the shift points in them. I don't think this probably is the right way to go about it but it might be. Have a look at shift lock schedule and see the 50 something maps in there. Map 27 is manual mode so you have some idea of the numbers it will and wont auto shift at.

[Jase]

Hi. Just did another read and this is the latest TCM file I am using. The one above is just my original NA tune working on the Turbo box.

Thanks. Jason.

NA tune on turbo TCM 7723.tec

[Bill]

21 hours ago, Jase said:

Hey Guys. Hoping for some more help. I have checked the auF1692 to match ZF03987. And they are both 4, So I guess they match but still cannot use the Turbo tune, same transmission fault.... So I copied my NA tune back after painstakingly going through pretty much every parameter and changing them to match the Turbo tune.

Was this a U0301 fault code or something else? Your case is the only one so far I'm aware of where it hasn't worked.

[Bill]

What PCM strategy are you using? Can you post a full read of the PCM & TCM?

[Jase]

Thanks Bill. Full read below. This is my current PCM and my old but modified TCM file from the NA box loaded to the Turbo box.

I cannot get the original Turbo TCM file to pair with my PCM and yes, get the U0301 code software not compatible with PCM.

Thanks, Jason.

Full PCM TCM 7723.tec

[Puffwagon]

Ok rather than confuse things, I took the latest upload and added all of the turbo parameters to that. In the previous uploads there were literally dozens of parameters that hadn't been updated that should have been. It is quite different and the car should feel much better. Nothing is modified however, so everything remains stock per the turbo tcm file that was uploaded.

The fact that the trans was playing up before and is still doing the same thing with a different trans points to the trans not being the problem. Is there any further info you can give us that will help? What happened just before the trans started playing up, was the tune changed then? It is a na+t so the tune would have been touched at some point.

Full PCM TCM 7723 with turbo tcm param changes.tec

[Jase]

Thanks so much for the time guys.  No, the NA trans was working perfectly until I started getting up around 18PSI boost 600HP. So I just thought ok I am pushing the NA trans past what it wants to deal with. So purchased excellent FG1 Turbo trans and thought that would solve my problems. But after having to load the old NA TCM tune to get everything to be happy. I have exactly the same problem. Its weird, but still very drivable. Just cannot give it WOT from standing start as it will refuse to change out of first and just bounces of the rev limiter until I lift off a bit then all good.

I will load the tune you have modified for me ( thanks so much ). And if still the same I might turn the boost way down just to see if everything goes normal.

Really appreciate the help.

Cheers, Jason.

[Puffwagon]

Ahh I see. This is very common when you turn them up as the trans doesn't have time to shift before it hits the rev limiter. Turn your rev limiter up a few hundred rpm and it should be sorted. You can always give it a performance trans tune to get it shifting quicker and harder too. This will help it shift before the stock limiter if you didn't want to raise it. I would just raise it tho, much easier lol.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Puffwagon

[Jase]

Excellent. You guys are the best. 

Let you know how I go..

[Jase]

Hey guys. I didn't have any luck getting that tune to work you modified for me Puffwagon. Don't know why something in it ( same when using the original Turbo tune ) just is not compatible with the PCM. Just get trans fault and the U0301 locking it in first gear..

BUT. I did what you said and now all is great.. I had to end up turning the Rev limit to 6600 as well as increasing the pressure on the trans shift etc.

Now it will shift nicely on a WOT sprint from stand still. Very happy am I......

Really appreciate all the advice and another happy PCMtec user..

Thanks, Jason..

[Puffwagon]

Oh well, something is not the same, it should be easy enough to work out what it isn't happy with. You'd have to add each main directory and when the car plays up you can remove it, then add each sub-directory, then add each parameter. Easy in theory but a lot of stuffing around driving it. If it works now and doesn't slip or bang into gear then the trans will be happy.

Just for reference you will want lots of shift and line pressure on the high load and high rpm points at your power level. Remember that when you make a shift it will drop rpm and the pressure has to be there at the beginning of the next gear. 10 bar shift pressure and 17 bar line pressure is normal to keep it clamped immediately after a shift. Raise the shift pressures as needed to make sure the trans doesn't slip, but don't be afraid to raise them to where they need to be. Leave the very low load stuff as is or raise it very slightly, so it doesn't thud when it shifts with normal driving.

Anyhow there is that, the car works now so happy days

[Jase]

Excellent advice once again. Cannot thank you enough. Knowledge is king with this stuff and i am just getting started. But I have already fixed lots of problems I had after the last tuner screwed things up, so I am well in front so far.

Cheers to all for now. This little problem is solved.

[Bill]

Sorry for the late reply. auF2531 Encode calibration of engine configuration is another parameter that I forgot to mention
NA = 18
Turbo = 34

Same applies for ZF 03988
NA = 18
Turbo = 34

Usually no change is needed if going like for like but your file is a na PCM calibration & turbo TCM calibration so there's a mismatch.
Changing this in some instances causes an ABS mismatch (I've seen the mismatch in BF), but might be what was required to make it work in FG. 

Sounds like it's probably no-longer required, unless you want to try it to confirm.
There were a couple of other parameters I was looking at some time ago but would need to go back to some spreadsheets to refresh my memory.

[Puffwagon]

All very handy stuff to know

[Jase]

Yes . I will try them and report back.. It all helps for us to know and may help someone else. I would be only happy to share and give back if I can for the help i have received here. I will try them tomorrow.

Thanks, Jason.