BF na xr6 with fg intake hardware hitting ETC error

[Andre34]

Hi guys, I recently finnished installing an fg intake manifold, throttle body, fuel rain and injectors into my bf mk2 na xr6. I got an fg stratergy and compared it to my current one. I coppied over almost all of the fg data relating to drive by wire, injectors, dashpot and anything with map or maf. I also copied over a bunch of other stuff that seemed relevant. The car runs and drives well under high load. My issue happens when I am driving in traffic very slowly and need to sit on the pedal at very low load (around 5-15% throttle). The car throws an ETC error and becomes undriveable. At first I thought it was a problem with my bf to fg throttle body wiring adapter, but I ruled this out because if I turn the car off and on, the error goes away and the car drives as expected. I'm not experienced with datalogging so im not sure what parameters to log. I am wondering if it has something to do with the MAF sensor. If so, can I disable this by changing the values in the screenshot? If so, what are level values and what do the numbers mean?

I'll be taking the car to my tuner to get the speed density and other power gain related parameters done later this week. I'm trying to get as much of the basic stuff done now to save him time since he is hiring out the dyno and has limited time on it. 

 

Other than speed density, vct, fuel and spark, what else would be recommended to make the most of the new intake system?

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Andre34
Additional info

[Andre34]

Also, I’m using pcmtec workshop edition. Here is a photo of the engine bay for anyone interested.

[Roland@pcmtec]

Look at the IPC tables. There is a plausibility checker based on airflow vs throttle opening. Likely it is the throttle body change that is the root cause. 

Also there is no MAF sensor on these cars. 

[Andre34]

3 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

Look at the IPC tables. There is a plausibility checker based on airflow vs throttle opening. Likely it is the throttle body change that is the root cause. 

Also there is no MAF sensor on these cars. 

Thanks. I've had a look at all the IPC related parameters in the compare file. These are the only 2 which came up with a search.

These are all the ones different when I look under IPC category. Should i make all of them the same on my car?

I found if i make auf2437 the same on my bf as the fg, the car wont start. 

 

I had a look for the parameter you mentioned. I'm not sure which one it is. Would it be any of these?:

 

Cheers.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Andre34
Forgot to add photo

[Roland@pcmtec]

You are going to have to do some trial and error. 

[BeerTurbo]

i think i had a thread like this a while ago.

anyway, bin all the fg compare stuff you have done and put it all back to stock. i allways got ETC faults when trying to use the fg drive by wire settings.

i dont have the file on this computer but i think the only thing i kept was the FG throttle angle to predicted load table and the car would idle and run fine with all the fg intake/throttlebody.

 

if you cant work it out, pm me and ill dif up the file i used.

[Andre34]

1 hour ago, BeerTurbo said:

i think i had a thread like this a while ago.

anyway, bin all the fg compare stuff you have done and put it all back to stock. i allways got ETC faults when trying to use the fg drive by wire settings.

i dont have the file on this computer but i think the only thing i kept was the FG throttle angle to predicted load table and the car would idle and run fine with all the fg intake/throttlebody.

 

if you cant work it out, pm me and ill dif up the file i used.

Thanks for this! I ended up finding the issue. I’ve got all the fg stuff. The problem was that the fg ecu has the maximum throttle angle 1 degree smaller than the b series. When I put the max throttle angle as the b series max, it made the problem go away 100%

[Roland@pcmtec]

auF12805 is what you would want to change. You could datalog the PIP counter and throttle change to see what the limit should be for your throttle map.

[Andre34]

23 minutes ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

auF12805 is what you would want to change. You could datalog the PIP counter and throttle change to see what the limit should be for your throttle map.

Ok sweet I’ll give that a look next time I’m on the dyno. What happens if I set the max angle too high?

[Roland@pcmtec]

2 hours ago, Andre34 said:

Ok sweet I’ll give that a look next time I’m on the dyno. What happens if I set the max angle too high?

It would effectively disable the IPC checking on it. Eg if the TPS some how failed and went from 10 AD to 500 AD in 1 ms it would allow it. This would mean you have bypassed as safety feature preventing the throttle from opening at an implausibly fast speed.

Think of it as a rate of change that a typical user would press the pedal, it is basically saying if the pedal has moved faster than a real person could have moved it according to the TPS AD curve then something has failed and FMEM should be triggered.

Hence I would datalog the rate of change, compare it to the value and make sure that you only increase it by the minimum amount required.

[BeerTurbo]

6 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

auF12805 is what you would want to change. You could datalog the PIP counter and throttle change to see what the limit should be for your throttle map.

is that for workshop users only?

[samireland]

Hi @Roland@pcmtec, is auF12805 for workshop only? I can't find it in HAANGA3 using PCMTec professional.

@Andre34 when you said that the problem was that the fg ecu has the maximum throttle angle 1 degree smaller than the b series.
I'm assuming that you modified auF0075 "Throttle Angle Maximum for torque control" from 83 to 82, is that right?

@BeerTurbo do you have any other helpful tips or tricks?

I'm having similar problems with my N/A 2005 BA Mk2 HAANGA3. I've got the plastic FG manifold and throttle body, and running E85. Have copied over auF0083 Throttle Angle A (Pedal Position) and auF0084 Throttle Angle B (Pedal Position).
I've tried modifying auF0075 as above, and also auF1588 "RPM guard limit as a function of pedal position" but haven't had any progress.

Getting code P2110 "Throttle Actuator Control System - Forced Limited RPM (Signal is Above Maximum Threshold)", P2105, and P1270 "Engine RPM or Vehicle Speed limiter reached (Signal is Above Maximum Threshold)"

It seems to mostly happen about a minute or two after starting the car, doesn't seem to be affected by whether the engine is cold or warm.
Do you think that this could be due to one of the timers that starts counting after the engine starts? Seems like there are a few cold start parameters that run things a bit differently for the first few minutes.
At first I thought it was the BTR transmission flaring and RPM exceeding the redline, but I have bounced it off the limiter a few times on the wetpan and it didn't stall most of the time. But once it happened one time it seemed to happen a few times in a row after restarting the engine.

I get the problem under two different circumstances:
1) similar to OP, at low to mid RPM, if I suddenly go from low pedal position to about 70% or higher
2) at high RPM in tiptronic mode when I shift the 4-speed from 1st to 2nd and let go of the pedal simultaneously. This was also happening on the dyno in 3rd gear.

I managed to capture this in a log which I have inserted below
you can see it goes from 80.25 degrees down to 68.19 degrees

Cheers
-Sam

17-03-2024 06-53-00 PM Log this one stalled.teclog

Edited March 17 by samireland
tagging users properly

[samireland]

note that sometimes the car completely stalls, but other times it runs really rough (I believe that this is a cylinder cut safety mode due to the PCM thinking that it doesn't have control over the throttle position any more). But similar to the OP, the problem goes away for me as soon as I restart the car. I may be experiencing two different problems here but I think they are both related to the FG throttle body and IPC tables

[BeerTurbo]

3 hours ago, samireland said:

note that sometimes the car completely stalls, but other times it runs really rough (I believe that this is a cylinder cut safety mode due to the PCM thinking that it doesn't have control over the throttle position any more). But similar to the OP, the problem goes away for me as soon as I restart the car. I may be experiencing two different problems here but I think they are both related to the FG throttle body and IPC tables

my setup would just randomly go into ETC mode. so etc light on dash and return to idle sounding like antilag as its in protection mode. i dont run the fg plastic on this car anymore, but i had a look through the old file.

auF0082 - set to FG na.

auF0075 - max tb - still set to b series 83

auF0083 - set to B series config, all under pedal is std. i think there is where i got into trouble hitting error codes playing in here.

auF12805 - i dont have acess to being professional version. so std.

[Andre34]

On 3/17/2024 at 9:54 PM, samireland said:

Hi @Roland@pcmtec, is auF12805 for workshop only? I can't find it in HAANGA3 using PCMTec professional.

@Andre34 when you said that the problem was that the fg ecu has the maximum throttle angle 1 degree smaller than the b series.
I'm assuming that you modified auF0075 "Throttle Angle Maximum for torque control" from 83 to 82, is that right?

@BeerTurbo do you have any other helpful tips or tricks?

I'm having similar problems with my N/A 2005 BA Mk2 HAANGA3. I've got the plastic FG manifold and throttle body, and running E85. Have copied over auF0083 Throttle Angle A (Pedal Position) and auF0084 Throttle Angle B (Pedal Position).
I've tried modifying auF0075 as above, and also auF1588 "RPM guard limit as a function of pedal position" but haven't had any progress.

Getting code P2110 "Throttle Actuator Control System - Forced Limited RPM (Signal is Above Maximum Threshold)", P2105, and P1270 "Engine RPM or Vehicle Speed limiter reached (Signal is Above Maximum Threshold)"

It seems to mostly happen about a minute or two after starting the car, doesn't seem to be affected by whether the engine is cold or warm.
Do you think that this could be due to one of the timers that starts counting after the engine starts? Seems like there are a few cold start parameters that run things a bit differently for the first few minutes.
At first I thought it was the BTR transmission flaring and RPM exceeding the redline, but I have bounced it off the limiter a few times on the wetpan and it didn't stall most of the time. But once it happened one time it seemed to happen a few times in a row after restarting the engine.

I get the problem under two different circumstances:
1) similar to OP, at low to mid RPM, if I suddenly go from low pedal position to about 70% or higher
2) at high RPM in tiptronic mode when I shift the 4-speed from 1st to 2nd and let go of the pedal simultaneously. This was also happening on the dyno in 3rd gear.

I managed to capture this in a log which I have inserted below
you can see it goes from 80.25 degrees down to 68.19 degrees

Cheers
-Sam

17-03-2024 06-53-00 PM Log this one stalled.teclog 24.2 kB · 0 downloads

Hey im not sure which of these fixed the problem but these are the throttle related parameters on my latest file. I was having an issue where WOT was only going to 76 degrees but it's now going to 82 degrees which is great. Have a play around and see which parameters work for you. If these dont work you might have a wiring/plug problem. You can also try matching some of the speed density tables from the fg stock file if you still have issues

Fg manifold on bf.xml

[samireland]

Thanks guys, I will do some testing and let you know how it goes