kris.ford Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Hi, I am new to pcmtec. I have been looking at my PCM tune provided with the car. its running a gtx3582r and 1000cc injectors, ford fg, stock motor. 390rwkw. I can monitor air/fuel ratios. Boost is targeted to dropoff after 4500 rpms. I thought with a turbo car, boost would be kept to the same until redline? maybe its a strategy to save the gearbox. My spark table looks the same as stock (via pcmtec compare function) but the fuel table (auF0172) has been changed. Can anyone provide advice on this? Anything I can change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnigan001 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Got a few questions to make sense of the above. Is that the tune you read off the car? I'm guessing you've changed the units from inhg to psi? Does ur wideband AFR match you base fuel table? Do you mind uploading your tune for us to look at? If you do change the desired boost table, you will have to change the wastegate duty cycle table to match. Otherwise, depending on the rest of the tune values ur car might have over or underboost conditions. Welcome aboard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris.ford Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 It was tuned through ****. It was originally tuned with STC x3. Wideband matches the base fuel table under light POT. WOT I haven't tried yet. kris_ford_pcm_tcm_tune v1.2 - traction_control + stall - 2 abuse.tecwastegate duty cycle table I had a look at. I didn't change it. Tune uploaded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnigan001 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 So looking at ur tune there isn't much i would be worried about. It isn't unusual for a tune to have the boost come off up top to as you say to help the box on gear change. But also to avoid boost spiking on gear change. I would see what AFRs are like at WOT as there are some super rich values at the top end. However this maybe just how the tuner dialed in your injectors to get fueling to how they wanted it. 390kw for the gtx3582 on 98 is pretty much on point. If there was more power in it worth having the tuner would have done it. They may have tried and seen that the returns weren't worth the extra cylinder pressures and heat produced causing knock events. Are you having any actual issues or noticing anything you want to tune out in particular? Or just curious about the boost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris.ford Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 Okay thanks mate. I was just curious about the tune. The car goes hard otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnigan001 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 I saw they have you a hard time over at xr6turbo. This forum is a little more helpful on the tuning side of things. Yes in a perfect world everyone would have dynos and pay tuners for every little change you make to your car. But some of us like to learn and share our knowledge. Not enough of it on the ford side of things. So I hope those guys, although being helpful, don’t discourage you from learning more or looking at ur tune in more depth. People here will generally point you in the right direction with some good info and a little less of the ‘leave it to ur tuner’ etc. In specific to your tune: your injectors weren’t ‘dialed in’ meaning your high and low slopes weren’t adjusted for your specific injectors. The data however is what would have been provided for you type of injectors. Your base fuel map is how ur fuel has been enriched as your can see from the super rich lambda in the bottom rows. I don’t think anything is wrong with doing it this way just how this particular tuner goes about it and would be faster for them to setup using a dyno to load the cells at specific rpm and throttle. It seems your boost is tuned in open loop. Which means ur desired boost table above doesn’t really do or mean anything. The table that will be controlling ur boost is wastegate D/C rpm to temp table. 0 is open gate. 1 is close gate. Where you see boost falling of in the higher rpms you can see the values in this table drop from 0.5 to 0.1. If you were to experiment a little you could start there. Your spark table looks fine and uses adders and substractors to calculate final spark. So the 12 degrees in your final row won’t necessarily be what you get at whatever boost you are running. I think this is more or less the point jet was making. There are plenty of posts on this forum to understand how the pcm calculates all this. It’s not black magic ? I would like to know what wastegate you have install if you know. Spring pressure and brand if you know. And also what boost your running. Just to understand the tune a bit better. Looks like boost would come on super hard. Not that that’s a bad thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris.ford Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 Hi Finnigan, thanks for the comments,. Stock fuel pressure regulator, stock/Garrett 12lb wastegate spring, 20 psi of boost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 As above the tuner has disabled closed loop boost control (very common as its much faster to tune) and hence your desired boost table is completely ignored. Spark table has pegged the load at 1.7 (you'd be hitting high 2s for load) which works fine but is a non optimal way to tune spark as it means you are running less spark at part throttle/low boost levels than you could be. Arguably for the average tuner it is safer and it would be much quicker to tune that way though. The fuel table suggests to me that your injector slopes have not been dialed in correctly and they have fudged the WOT fueling this way as 0.65 lambda would be far too rich. What long term fuel trims are you seeing? Once again this is probably fine though, assuming your LTFT are off (I will bet they are) your return to idle, cold start and fuel economy will be a step backwards from stock however. For your typical 2 hours on the dyno this is what I would expect to see a lot of tunes looking like. To get a factory level of tune takes a week on the dyno and no one is going to pay for that. If you used parts the shop has used many times in the past then they can use a base tune which would net better results, but I'm guessing you have random injectors and parts making it different to every other car. To improve on this tune you'll need to hire a dyno for at least a day, get knock ears and a calibrated wideband (how do you know your's is accurate?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris.ford Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 Thanks for everyone's comments on here. All modifications done to the car were through ****. I did not do any mechanical work or tuning. I thought the fuel injectors were Injector Dynamic 1000cc fuel injectors. I can add some logs on here. I will take some time to find and attach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 What fuel pump? I actually have ID1000s and the data they ended up with is similarish to what I had with a 255 walbro running stock pressure. if you have an upgraded pump running higher pressure then I wouldn't be surprised that it is different. btw I've been editing out the workshops name to make sure you don't start an episode of tuner wars (lol) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris.ford Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 Hi Roland. Okay, I should have mentioned idle base pressure is 65psi, fuel pump is walbro 460 ( I didnt remove it to confirm). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Is it a flat 65psi across the board? Or it is high because the stock reg is being used? If the stock reg is in place and has not been modified you will see pressure spike at idle which makes the car an absolute pig to tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris.ford Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 The 65psi is flat across the board with the stock fuel pressure regulator in place. I don't see any fuel pressure spike on the gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnigan001 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Roland@pcmtec said: Your duty cycle table however is stock which is quite strange for an aftermarket turbo. Didn't look stock to me. Unless i was looking at the wrong table. 0.8DC to 3500rpm then 0.5 to 4750rpm Still strange nonetheless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, finnigan001 said: Didn't look stock to me. Unless i was looking at the wrong table. 0.8DC to 3500rpm then 0.5 to 4750rpm Still strange nonetheless... Whoops! I was looking at the wrong file. That makes a lot more sense now! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 42 minutes ago, kris.ford said: The 65psi is flat across the board with the stock fuel pressure regulator in place. I don't see any fuel pressure spike on the gauge. Ok great. Then that all makes a lot more sense now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris.ford Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 Thanks for ever ones comments so far. This is my setup -stock engine, stock FPR - herrod cold air intake with stock crossover pipe - GTX3582R compressor wheel, 0.7 Compressor cover - 1000cc injectors - 12 psi actuator - Walbro 460 fuel pump - 4.5” downpipe, 3.5” exhaust At idle fuel pressure is 65psi. I purchased pcmtec to learn how to optimise my setup and learn to tune myself. I am going to purchase an adjustable fuel pressure regulator >> https://plazmaman.com/product/gfb-fx-s-fuel-pressure-regulator-ford-falcon-direct-replacement/ Is there any feedback on this item? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnigan001 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Yep that's the one you want I'm using one right now. Straight swap in, no modding. Comes highly recommended. 51 minutes ago, kris.ford said: I purchased pcmtec to learn how to optimise my setup and learn to tune myself. Cool! i would start by logging everything now. And without changing anything try and understand how and where stuff ur logging reflects in the tune. The first thing i would do however, would be to return your fuel base table to stock and to tune the slopes in the fuel injector settings. Heaps of info in the HOW-TOs here. But baby setups. Read and learn as much as you can before you get stuck right in. You don't want to hurt anything. Always keep an eye on those AFRs!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris.ford Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 These are my fuel injectors. They are short and black. I didn't remove the fuel rail. If they cannot be identified then I will. Are the pics okay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnigan001 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 They have the connector that the ID1050 have... But you wont know unless you pull them. I think you can trust that the tuner put 1000cc injectors in it as that's what is in the tune in your injector settings. Cant really fake that and have a running car 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 2 hours ago, kris.ford said: I am going to purchase an adjustable fuel pressure regulator >> https://plazmaman.com/product/gfb-fx-s-fuel-pressure-regulator-ford-falcon-direct-replacement/ It is not neccessary, if you have flat fuel pressure already then there is no reason to change it. The only reason people change them (usually just to a stock one that has been drilled out) is the stock return is not big enough to flow at idle with a big pump. This coupled with the fuel tank return lines means your pressure can spike at idle. As you are not seeing this there is no reason to change it. There are lots of ID1000 clones that are made a similar way (from the bosch injector) and look the same, the issue is they are usually not flow matched. If you are going to go to the trouble of pulling them out get them put on a flow bench. If they are out there are global adders in the PCM that will let you scale to compensate (you will probably be one of the one people in the country doing this). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris.ford Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 Here is an example of what the logs look like at WOT. This was through forscan, over a year before I purchased pcmtec. Temperature was 10 degrees out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnigan001 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 You want to be looking at BLK spark at WOT if you have it. MBT wont be used unless it is lower than the BLK table(great write up in the HOWTOs, worth taking the time to read). Boost control looks good and so does trims. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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