Does anyone know anything about BTR Shift ramps?

[JayJay]

I was wondering if anyone knows whats what with the BTR Shift ramps? I am aware of the S5 temperature correction table but want to know more about shift ramps, if its possible for it to crank the pressure when its at say half throttle or in sports mode.
I believe table B is an offset of A and table B is sports/towing mode.

full line pressure all the time on a daily is just annoying to have, chirping tires in a 50 zone is just stupid if im not trying to thrash it.

If anyone can shed some info on it, ill pay for the time for you to walk me though it

[Puffwagon]

Shift ramps are literally shift pressures. They dictate how much pressure is used on the shift. Line pressure is how much pressure is used to keep it clamped in gear after the shift.

You need to experiment. I'd start with a 10% increase in the positive pressure areas and take it from there.

 

The specifics are IP so that's all you get from me.

[JayJay]

IP? 
alright so high pressure is self explanatory then, what does low pressure area do? i doubt it’s for downshifts as they’re their own parameters

cheers

[Puffwagon]

Intellectual property. It's easy to work out yourself anyway.

Get to experimenting.

[JayJay]

Will do, thanks man✌️

[danmc64]

How did you acheive full line pressure? 

[JayJay]

Took your advice puffwaggen and turned out great, I'm kicking myself for not trying sooner, Cheers!

[JayJay]

4 hours ago, danmc64 said:

How did you acheive full line pressure? 

on auF1512 changing a lot of the table to -500 globally increases line pressure buy not bleeding off as much pressure.

you'll either love it or hate it, but its the quick and easy method

[danmc64]

Just now, JayJay said:

on auF1512 changing a lot of the table to -500 globally increases line pressure buy not bleeding off as much pressure.

you'll either love it or hate it, but its the quick and easy method

 

 

Thanks mate. I was wondering if that was it or if you did something else to disconnect the S3 and S4 solenoids. 

 

 

[JayJay]

I know you can in the E series but I haven't heard anything good or bad on the BA-BF. never tried it though

[danmc64]

My reading sounds like it doesnt work in B series cars. 

[Plumbs]

On 3/3/2022 at 3:16 PM, JayJay said:

Took your advice puffwaggen and turned out great, I'm kicking myself for not trying sooner, Cheers!

Hi Mate , can u tell us what maps u used and what you did ? Having the same problems with my Territory shifting hard too ? Cheers! 

[JayJay]

shift ramps under transmission pressure.
its 50/50 on results. firmer shifts but hanging gears/not changing up and weird sh*t happening.

I'm still experimenting and trying to dial it in.

[Plumbs]

On 3/2/2022 at 8:14 PM, Puffwagon said:

Shift ramps are literally shift pressures. They dictate how much pressure is used on the shift. Line pressure is how much pressure is used to keep it clamped in gear after the shift.

You need to experiment. I'd start with a 10% increase in the positive pressure areas and take it from there.

 

The specifics are IP so that's all you get from me.

Puff , can you please throw us a bone ? I’ve got a built Bbe built box coming and wonder if mucking around with these shift ramps will help keep the box alive ? I’ve got the s5 global set near - 500 . 
 

But what shift ramps and high and low pressure curves should I much with ? Shift 1-2 a and b ? 2-3 a and b tables ? 
 PLEASE CAN U THROW ME A BONE MATE ? 😎😎😊😊

[BeerTurbo]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:46 AM, JayJay said:

shift ramps under transmission pressure.
its 50/50 on results. firmer shifts but hanging gears/not changing up and weird sh*t happening.

I'm still experimenting and trying to dial it in.

did you get anywhere?

i put the globals tunes into one car and it bang shifts and carrys on, whitch is fine cause its not street car.

but mate put together a basic na+t and i just copied the turbo values over and it seems to work fine...but wondering if there is anything else to do to make the box live longer without sacrificing the low load smoothness.

[Plumbs]

Hi Mate , for my wife’s Territory. She was complaining how hard it was shifting just driving normally. Being a built turbo box , it seems to shift hard anyway. But I did have some success with the above  s 5 global temps . I believe 0- is first to 2 nd , 1 is 2 nd to 3 rd , 2 Col 3 rd to 4 th 3 rd possibly converter lock up ?? Not totally sure ?  
I believe 0 to 8 is throttle % ? 
anyway it seems to work ! 
 

if anyone knows more about what each Column means be happy if u want to correct me ? 
 

anyway I also set the kickdown pedal at 50% and then adjusted the shift point via shift schedule towing and performance towing I think it it is ? 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Plumbs

[BeerTurbo]

Hey i was reading down the first coloum as temptures.

Across the top i thought tourque.

 

[Roland@pcmtec]

I will see if I can confirm the axis used for that table.

[Roland@pcmtec]

I did some good old assembly reading so this could be completely wrong and muddy the waters, but I'm reasonably confident its on the right track. The best way to confirm it would be to datalog the solenoid current and the trans temp and see if the values match. Without a BTR to confirm this on I'm not confident enough to define the axis in case they are wrong.

So the X Axis is "Solenoid 5 Current Input". Units and breakpoints are unknown.

The Y Axis is "Transmission Temperature for solenoid 5 compensation". 

The equation I believe is native units of °C but I can't figure out the multiplier. It should be top to bottom, cold to hot though.

From the assembly I could see it looking at the following scalars to help determine the current when in certain modes and are passed into the lookup for the X axis. This might be a bum steer though as there are so many layers of indirection its easy to get lost. I think these three currents determine the lock/unlock/shift determination for some of the columns.

All of the BTR code was written by someone other than Ford it appears, it doesn't follow any of the standard Ford table definitions (a struct which includes a xaxis, yaxis and table data in the binary) the calls to these are always preceded by the X and Y DMR which makes it very easy to do table definitions. This table appears to be more of an array and a bunch of horrible optimised switch statements which is why most people give up defining them.

Not sure if this helps you guys or not. I'm on maternity leave for the next 4 weeks so I have some fun down time to go digging like this. If you've got any other requests hit me up now as I don't have time when I'm in the office these days.

[Plumbs]

3 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

I did some good old assembly reading so this could be completely wrong and muddy the waters, but I'm reasonably confident its on the right track. The best way to confirm it would be to datalog the solenoid current and the trans temp and see if the values match. Without a BTR to confirm this on I'm not confident enough to define the axis in case they are wrong.

So the X Axis is "Solenoid 5 Current Input". Units and breakpoints are unknown.

The Y Axis is "Transmission Temperature for solenoid 5 compensation". 

The equation I believe is native units of °C but I can't figure out the multiplier. It should be top to bottom, cold to hot though.

From the assembly I could see it looking at the following scalars to help determine the current when in certain modes and are passed into the lookup for the X axis. This might be a bum steer though as there are so many layers of indirection its easy to get lost. I think these three currents determine the lock/unlock/shift determination for some of the columns.

All of the BTR code was written by someone other than Ford it appears, it doesn't follow any of the standard Ford table definitions (a struct which includes a xaxis, yaxis and table data in the binary) the calls to these are always preceded by the X and Y DMR which makes it very easy to do table definitions. This table appears to be more of an array and a bunch of horrible optimised switch statements which is why most people give up defining them.

Not sure if this helps you guys or not. I'm on maternity leave for the next 4 weeks so I have some fun down time to go digging like this. If you've got any other requests hit me up now as I don't have time when I'm in the office these days.

Hi Roland , Congrats too! 
So on the s 5 table I’m totally wrong how I’ve set it up ? 
 

should it just be -500 c across the table ? Regards Graham.

[BeerTurbo]

5 minutes ago, Plumbs said:

Hi Roland , Congrats too! 
So on the s 5 table I’m totally wrong how I’ve set it up ? 
 

should it just be -500 c across the table ? Regards Graham.

Leave purple stock n change red

[Plumbs]

1 hour ago, BeerTurbo said:

Leave purple stock n change red

So in red all neg 500 ? Or is there a way to have soft shifts just normal driving then ramp up when turbo is spooling ? 
 

Eg in the red areas am doing the right thing up to row 3 keeping them stock too? 
 

Boy what a puzzle ? 
 

Thanks heaps for helping . 

[BeerTurbo]

Just now, Plumbs said:

So in red all neg 500 ? Or is there a way to have soft shifts just normal driving then ramp up when turbo is spooling ? 
 

Eg in the red areas am doing the right thing up to row 3 keeping them stock too? 
 

Boy what a puzzle ? 
 

Thanks heaps for helping . 

I assume:This is a global change that afects everything.

I dont have a test car but i would change all red to -50 as thats a value that exsist and test.

-500 is a value that put it in error to not bleed pressure.

 

I also wanted to test the low and high line pressure . If you open high line pressure and compare na to turbo see the changes? Then add that amount again and test?

 

 

[BeerTurbo]

On 6/29/2022 at 1:15 PM, Roland@pcmtec said:

Not sure if this helps you guys or not. I'm on maternity leave for the next 4 weeks so I have some fun down time to go digging like this. If you've got any other requests hit me up now as I don't have time when I'm in the office these days.

Congratulations mate.

 

if you get bored can you tell me how the TQ reductions work, i assume auF2523/auF1269 are used a majority of the time.

presumably top row being rpm and left most down row being tourque....im curious are the number like the ZF actually torque reduction, or are they a percentage? i find it curious i didn't see a number over 100. 

[Plumbs]

21 hours ago, BeerTurbo said:

Congratulations mate.

 

if you get bored can you tell me how the TQ reductions work, i assume auF2523/auF1269 are used a majority of the time.

presumably top row being rpm and left most down row being tourque....im curious are the number like the ZF actually torque reduction, or are they a percentage? i find it curious i didn't see a number over 100. 

Hi Mate, can u be so kind and tell me ? If I zero out the table in both of these pages other than the x and y axis. 
does this disable the torque reduction and stop slip and destroying the box ? 
below I have changed these tables to xr 6 t bf from Territory Na . 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Plumbs

[BeerTurbo]

just a guess, id say if you do that the engine will be producing power on the shift and it will slip more.

[Plumbs]

Ok so I’ll load in the Xr 6 turbo which had higher numbers and more torque reduction . 
thanks for your help ! Really appreciate it ! 😉👍

[BeerTurbo]

8 minutes ago, Plumbs said:

Ok so I’ll load in the Xr 6 turbo which had higher numbers and more torque reduction . 
thanks for your help ! Really appreciate it ! 😉👍

The ZF Tq reduction is done in Tourque number, on the btr it goes up to 100 in the td configs.... ""IF"" its also torque number, not percent then you could in theroy add more then 100 for the high load areas.

 

In my eyes its over 350 starts to become the onboost area for tourque load. that could be wrong also. but experement with adding more in those areas.

Edited July 2, 2022 by BeerTurbo

[Plumbs]

Ok , I’ve tested and this is from cold box to hot or warm in these conditions. And it’s what gives me a nice firm quick shift at lower torque demands ( normal driving ) . Then quick shifts under boost . But most importantly no sore necks from whip lash . 
I also loaded the below torque maps and works as advertised. 
 

I have previously change the traction control/ torque reduction settings from Na factory, which basically just cuts the motor totally! To -15 deg timing ( from memory) when the box is calling for it ! Look up here on traction control on this site ? 
In tiptronic it’s also most like changing gears with a lovely boost dose in between. 
 

In normal drive mode it will pull lots of torque changing gears , which in my professional Plumbing opinion, will save the box big time ! 
 

Please test and be careful as this is my figures. ( they may destroy your box ?) Let us know how you all go ? 
 

I tried to log s 5 duty cycle in forscan . But not smart enough to work out how to do it ? So please share if anyone knows? Thank heaps! 🙂

ps , did try -50 in the same fields as -500. But felt too soft and possibly destroying box ! This is where data logging the s5 would be better than just guessing? Tune could be better if we could do that to test duty cycle? 

[Roland@pcmtec]

On 7/1/2022 at 11:33 AM, BeerTurbo said:

Congratulations mate.

 

if you get bored can you tell me how the TQ reductions work, i assume auF2523/auF1269 are used a majority of the time.

presumably top row being rpm and left most down row being tourque....im curious are the number like the ZF actually torque reduction, or are they a percentage? i find it curious i didn't see a number over 100. 

Without a box to test on I'm not confident enough to give advice on that. Im pretty sure the numbers are meant to be multiplied by a factor to give a real number, but the units are unknown.

If you went over 100 it would still clip at 100 but it would get there faster. Same with how they request negative torque values in the ZF, it can't actually go negative but it makes the ramp/slope harder so it gets there faster.