How do I run E85 ?

[Plumbs]

Ok , recap! Territory Ghia , turbo motor conversion. Have pauper pak enthusiast version. Tune is now mint on built btr box and motor . Thing is a weapon of a shopping trolley! 
We have a United about to be built in my town , so e85 likely to be very accessible. 
 

So I’m not wanting multi tunes . Was just going to flash tune at servo after filling up . 
 

So if I just change the stoichiometric ratio to 9.7:1 and the pcm will adj pretty much ? Is 4 deg added safe for base timing to what in running now ? Only will be ruining 14 psi max . 
Thanks heaps? 

[Puffwagon]

The quotes are to help with the stoich change. Either change the stoich value or change the slopes to run E85.

A built motor will want about 18 degrees total timing but a stock motor isn't as strong. Considering you can run 13 degrees of timing at 13psi on 98 with a stock engine, you can decide how much timing is safe for your engine.

 

On 4/15/2022 at 12:45 PM, Roland@pcmtec said:

Yes it's definitely possible to do with the custom os. 

 

 

On big boost cars is common to do this. Eg if you are running 18psi on 98 and 35psi on e85 you would normally have to fudge the slopes or speed density due a combination of a variety of effects. No more than a few % though 

 

Completely agree. End of the day if the car operates in the range of conditions your require it to with acceptable timing, afr and safety limits then it doesn't really matter how you achieve it. The short cuts are often much simpler and more reliable than doing it "properly". It's also a hell of alot faster. 

Which calibrations do you find stoich doesn't work in? It should be used in all. 

 

On 4/15/2022 at 3:20 PM, Puffwagon said:

It didn't do anything in my territory, HACH4A6/PCMA5A6. We spoke about it recently on the forum and you said you might consider removing it from the software cos it doesn't do anything anyway.

 

On 4/15/2022 at 4:36 PM, Roland@pcmtec said:

Ah right that is the custom operating system as Stoich is remapped to be used by the new ethanol stoich lookup system. So its still there, its just a 1D table instead.

To modify stoich on a Custom OS with flex/multi tune. Modify this table instead. auF100014

 

[Plumbs]

Puff your a legend ! Thanks for your help ( you are always sharing !)  ! Running 11 deg in 14 psi at the top . Just safe timing . Ok I’ll check it out ! 

[Plumbs]

On my B series pcm I only have auf0117 . Would this be enough to change to 9.7? Or better to muck with the low and high slopes ? Do I just make the slopes 30% bigger and try and dial in the offset via A/F gauge? 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Plumbs

[hjtrbo]

Go with the stoich change to start off with. You might get lucky with your injector data. Do a careful small wide open pull focused on the wideband, and adjust the stoich to get fuelling right. If you end up a little off what ideal stoich is I wouldn't worry. 

[Roland@pcmtec]

9 hours ago, Plumbs said:

On my B series pcm I only have auf0117 . Would this be enough to change to 9.7? Or better to muck with the low and high slopes ? Do I just make the slopes 30% bigger and try and dial in the offset via A/F gauge? 

If your fuel trims are within 3% on 98 and your afr matches commanded lambda you should be able to simply change stoich. 

Keep in mind you might not actually have e85 in the tank. I've been getting e75 lately here in Adelaide from United. 

[Puffwagon]

The track at Mallala has e80, might be a bit of a hike for you tho Roland.

[Plumbs]

Thanks guys ! Without you all helping, I wouldn’t have this awesome Territory! 
also edit . I said offset last night . Meant breakpoint! Sorry newb talking lol! 
 

also talking about poor fuel etc . I’ve wrote in that the knock can take out 6 deg instead of the standard NA 3 deg . Because fuel Quality is very sketchy atm . 
good idea ? 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Plumbs

[Puffwagon]

You can change the amount of knock it can take out, have a look through the various knock parameters and compare a turbo file to get an idea of what's in there.

[Plumbs]

5 hours ago, Puffwagon said:

You can change the amount of knock it can take out, have a look through the various knock parameters and compare a turbo file to get an idea of what's in there.

Well, had a look at bf turbo and it seems like it was a good idea! Ford took up to 8 deg timing out if knock was detected.  So, I'm going to do the same! maybe even a bit more, like 10 deg. Seems like round number. Auf0236   b series pcm

Edited November 6, 2022 by Plumbs

[Puffwagon]

If you're worries about poor fuel quality here's some info;

An engine can still knock with very low timing, running 91 will give you an idea of how much timing it will take, maybe 4 degrees or so at stock boost levels, then you need a safety after that. To be 100% safe you would let it remove enough timing to get it down to 0 degrees or slightly less, ie -2 degrees.

You really need some kind of warning system that something is going wrong, wideband at a minimum, preferably boost as well, have the knock sensors working, iat table at stock settings and have boost safeties in place. Providing you stay away from the ragged edge you will have some more leeway there before things go wrong.

[jakka351]

12 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

Keep in mind you might not actually have e85 in the tank. I've been getting e75 lately here in Adelaide from United. 

  

On 12/4/2021 at 10:44 PM, jakka351 said:

E85 sold in Australia does not have to be 85% ethanol, it can actually be in the range of 70%-85%. If you are filling up at the servo it is going to be very hit and and miss - both with regards to ethanol percent and fuel quality especially at the one that sells E85. I would invest in a means to detect water in your fuel as well - with petrol, water will not mix and will sit at the bottom of a tank, but water will mix with ethanol. With E85 the water can form an azeotrope and become "mixed" in a sense. Maybe consider buying by the 205 L drum from a racing fuels place? They should be able to guarantee quality and content.

 

Sauce:

Race Blend E85 - United Petroleum

SDS - (6130B96D-3CFC-4458-A838-CDB4752FFEF5)Safey Data Sheet LQ2ZX00 AU EN (unitedpetroleum.com.au)

"The autogas fuel standard describes liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) suitable for motor vehicles. Petrol sold in Australia may contain up to 10 per cent ethanol (‘E10’). The Ethanol E85 fuel standard describes a fuel blend consisting of 70–85 per cent ethanol and 15–30 per cent petrol"

Regulating Australian fuel quality | Department of Industry, Science, Energy and Resources

 

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by jakka351
url

[hjtrbo]

The United pumps here have "always contains 85% ethanol" labelled on them. Hasn't been 85 for a while like it used to be. Another reason to go meth injection and 98. 

[Andre34]

I just put my car on e85 with stoichiometric at 10 for now because it still has some 94. How do I make the car run extra timing? Is it by doing mbt and forcing the car into open loop?

[hjtrbo]

Borderline knock table for timing, fuel base for open loop power enrichment.