Shift burble

[richardpalinkas]

So im trying to enable some shift burble but for some reason its not working. Ive done a compare to a stock file and copied spark, fuel and throttle torque managemwnt settings and its not working. Have also checked system switches and cant see anything disabled. 

 

Are there other settings that may be not alowing this to be turned back on? I just cant seem to see anything else that would be causing it.

 

Thanks

[Roland@pcmtec]

Post up what your model vehicle is and also the strategy. Also what is the strategy of a vehicle with the burble that you are comparing it to. 

[richardpalinkas]

Fg g6e turbo. 2008 HAEDJR5 and comparing to stock file

[Roland@pcmtec]

Does the g6e have a burble on shift stock? 

[richardpalinkas]

Yes. Ive compared to a few xr6 files, as well as the sprint calibration. Plus my old car tune file

[Darryl@pcmtec]

Richard, set everything back to stock with the exception of your injector data and see if it returns. Literally everything including the ZF. Very minor changes will often turn this off. If you cannot get it back then it could be combination that this does not work on.

Often modifying the torque tables will generally kill this function.

Ensure the auF0260 "Torque Module Switch" is enabled as well. In the early days I tried turning this off and it is a disaster for the car. The Falcon is a torque based car so turning this off does not make sense.

If you get it back then slowly add the parameters you have to see when it stops working. 

The function is usually invoked when the ZF asks for a reduction in torque on gear change, so you should look at the torque numbers in both the PCM and the TCM.

Also be very careful increasing the torque numbers in an FG. Doing that will often cause what appears to be random throttle cuts. MK2s are particularly susceptible. 

 

Let us know how you get on.

[richardpalinkas]

I will give this a shot and see how i go. Thanks

[Loki]

1 hour ago, Darryl@pcmtec said:

Richard, set everything back to stock with the exception of your injector data and see if it returns. Literally everything including the ZF. Very minor changes will often turn this off. If you cannot get it back then it could be combination that this does not work on.

Often modifying the torque tables will generally kill this function.

Ensure the auF0260 "Torque Module Switch" is enabled as well. In the early days I tried turning this off and it is a disaster for the car. The Falcon is a torque based car so turning this off does not make sense.

If you get it back then slowly add the parameters you have to see when it stops working. 

The function is usually invoked when the ZF asks for a reduction in torque on gear change, so you should look at the torque numbers in both the PCM and the TCM.

Also be very careful increasing the torque numbers in an FG. Doing that will often cause what appears to be random throttle cuts. MK2s are particularly susceptible. 

 

Let us know how you get on.

How do you know where to increase the torque number? I got my car on dyno today and 1 run we got throttle cut at 4.5k rpm. I've only played with torque limit and have no other clue. My car "bark" really loud every gear shift, pretty much like a Golf R: very short and loud fart!

[Roland@pcmtec]

Most people recommend keeping the torque numbers stock. 

[Loki]

Where is this torque number Roland? Which table or scalar?

[richardpalinkas]

I think he means that if say one of the torque management settings is a 0.5, dont put 0.6 or above. The values are fr9m 0-1, 0 being no torque management and 1 being max. Theres another thread that explains in further detail the order the torque management is carried out in the how to section

[richardpalinkas]

Auf11992

What exactly is this scaler? Ive noticed the later model fgx/ sprint have option 3, earlier fg have option 1. What are the options as the description runs out

[Darryl@pcmtec]

Richard, it is the type of cylinder cut and should be in the range 0 to 1 However for the V8 Coyote and FPV turbos it uses values over 2 to use a different filter for Sport Mode if the transmission is in Shift pattern 6 or 2.

Now ZF information that is communicated over the CAN bus that everyone keeps asking for, transmission shift patterns are: 

• Shift pattern 0 - Normal mode.                   
• Shift pattern 1 - Sport mode.                    
• Shift pattern 2 - (not used).                    
• Shift pattern 3 - Hot mode.                      
• Shift pattern 4 - Gradient mode.                 
• Shift pattern 5 - Traction map.                  
• Shift pattern 6 - Manual Mode.                   
• Shift pattern 7 - Cruise map.       

I am still looking at trying to find how we can determine that Manual Mode is controlled by Shift Pattern 27 in the ZF Calibration. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Darryl@pcmtec
Follow up on finding the actual shift pattern

[fordsrule]

Is tuning the zf so it changes gear quicker the same as fitting a shift kit as was the case back in the old days lol?

I would like a bit quicker shift myself in sequential mode, you have to predict when to make the change so it doesn't rev too high

[richardpalinkas]

just to touch base on this. i have managed to resolve the issue, but not sure why or how. what i did was copy over a tcm file from a previous vehicle, and slowly added back in the new tcm tune. what i found was blocking it were these tables in zf workshop development parameters.

 

now if i compare my stock tcm calibration to my tuned tcm, these tables are the same, however, the shift burble was working perfectly fine before the car was tuned. 

 

any insight as to what these tables actually do? the axis is pretty self explanatory, but the others, i would like to know more details. 

 

thanks in advance

 

[Roland@pcmtec]

Good to hear you resolved it. What tables reference those axis? 

Sounds like someone did a copy all axis and not table or vice versa screwing them up. 

[richardpalinkas]

Shift pattern 34, 35, 36, 37, 38

Shift maps/ converter schedule 1, schedule 2

[richardpalinkas]

I did change over all shift patterns from 0-48, and all 4 converter schedules to match that of an XR6 sprint

Edited January 16, 2019 by richardpalinkas

[Sam]

Have you changed the torque requestor tables from standard?

 

[Roland@pcmtec]

So those y axis that you show as different can you screenshot the table they are used on stock (burble working) and tuned (no burble) 

[richardpalinkas]

They are all back to standard. I literally flashed the car 10 times this Arvo copying the TCM bit by bit to find only the above tables to affect the shift burble. 

[richardpalinkas]

working

 

not working

[richardpalinkas]

Unless it has to do with the development arrays? I've only gone this far, I haven't gone any further in copying over other tables within the development parameters. That's the next step, to copy each one over to see if it's a single table or multiple tables causing the issue. Just thought I'd ask here first just incase I'm copying something I shouldn't 

[Sam]

What mode was the zf in when you were testing it, eg drive, performance or manual?

[richardpalinkas]

all modes

[Sam]

Yeah righto, Something else to check that I noticed in your compare screenshot is that there a table called "table of allowed drive programs" under "zf workshop development arrays". When I checked that on one of my files all the shift patterns that were changed eg 34, 35, 36, 37, 38 because of axis change, were all 0 is I'm assuming is disable for a lack of better word. Check to see what they are on yours are they may will be disabled and that may eliminate some things to check.

[richardpalinkas]

most of them are all 0, theres only a few that have a 1. 34-38 are all 0

[richardpalinkas]

27 and 40 are the only difference, changing from 1-0

[richardpalinkas]

im assuming that table relates to which shift tables are permissible, 0 being permissible and 1 being not permissible?

[Sam]

This is actually the first time I've seen this table and I was assuming the opposite, as my shift pattern 27 is 1 and my "manual mode" still works. I'm also going to assume that yours still works as you said earlier you were testing in that mode earlier today.

[Sam]

With all that being said the table goes up to 71 and as far as I'm aware there isn't that many shift patterns so yeah...........

[richardpalinkas]

Yea strange, both tune files work perfect in manual mode, just the burble seems to be affected by something within these last few tables.

[richardpalinkas]

So I changed all the axis labels and they were fine. Seems to be a combination of sw version table and criteria combination table that affects the shift burble. Either one of these tables feels like the torque module switch is removed, very long drawn out shifts instead of nice quick firm shifts

[Roland@pcmtec]

I suspect something was changed incorrectly at some point due to a compare/copy all type operation. If this stuff is wrong it most likely goes into a failure mode and just disables all of those items.

[richardpalinkas]

Yea strange. My original file prior to being tuned has the same values for both of these tables. The car was tuned prior to me buying it so maybe something went wrong at some point

[richardpalinkas]

What do these tables actually do?

[Roland@pcmtec]

You'd have to ask the original programmers to get a good answer. I suspect something to do with changing between shift maps and the various torque reduction events.

It is an extremely complex bit of programming in there, without access to original documentation or us spending days decompiling the binary we couldn't really do much more than guess.

[richardpalinkas]

so more testing on this one this arvo, criteria combination table and table of allowed drive programs are causing the issue. strange because i created a stock file, and they are stock values according to my strategy code

[richardpalinkas]

if i create a stock sprint calibration, those tables are the same as a 2009 xr6t (haedll8), but different to a 2008 g6e turbo (haedjr5). thinking maybe because its a 'sports' model compared to a luxury model