Puffwagon
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Posts posted by Puffwagon
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A car is tuned as soon as a parameter in the stock file is changed. You can literally only change the desired boost table, run 2 more psi and call it done.
The question you're asking is, "How good does a tune have to be, to be considered good enough".
That's up to individual preference.
If your trims are over 10% and you're happy with it then great. Most people would do more work to it, but it's not the end of the world if you don't.
Plenty of people didn't know how to get E85 cars to start when cold and cars would take 5 cranks to start. This was accepted for a while but now the info is widely available it is no longer acceptable.
Anyhow enough bogtrot ramblings...
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Sweet I'll give it a try next time I'm at it.
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2 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said:
Which calibrations do you find stoich doesn't work in?
It didn't do anything in my territory, HACH4A6/PCMA5A6. We spoke about it recently on the forum and you said you might consider removing it from the software cos it doesn't do anything anyway.
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Seems like a good starting point with the slopes, it'll get you in the ballpark. You might be onto something with the vbands. I have 6 in my system and they don't always seal up perfectly, so I wouldn't be surprised to see an issue even after one or two. Whether or not it is the problem, it doesn't hurt to check it off the list.
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58 minutes ago, hjtrbo said:
There may be some wincing from the hard core, but a few to 5 percent adjustment of stoich here or there to get the trims back is ok
I haven't said it lately but now seems like a good of time as any, you are tuning the car, not the computer. If the car is running the correct afr, the correct timing and otherwise drives fine then call it tuned. There is no point trying to absolutely make every detail match in the pcm to get a car tuned, unless of course you like the learning exercise.
That's not to take away from actually knowing what you're doing and doing things "properly" but yeah, a little bit of discrepancy here and there doesn't matter.
In other news the stoich value does nothing in some calibrations.
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Is there an O2 bias happening in the tune? Apart from exhaust leaks and possible ground issues I can't think of why it'd be doing that.
I've only tuned one boss motor and I can't remember it idling that lean, but it was ages ago so yerp.
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Put the entire base table and cold table to 0.8. Turn off the O2 sensor/force open loop. At operating temp note the idle afr. Adjust the low slope so idle afr matches 0.8. Stall it up on the brake and note afr. Adjust high slope until it matches 0.8.
Revert tables back to desired figures.
This will dial the slopes in and you don't even have to leave the driveway.
Leave the breakpoint where the id data suggests.
Go for a drive and see how far out the high slope is, this will give you an idea if the airflow tables need touching up.
Anyhow hope that helps.
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I can't remember exactly what I wrote but here's some of it... A na car will run over a massive afr range, from 9:1 up to about 16.5:1 and most people wont notice the difference just by driving it. At either extreme it will start to miss a bit and idling at 9:1 will eventually foul the plugs and it wont start again.
You want to aim for about 13:1 for max power on an na car, having it extremely rich or lean will lose power. AFR = air fuel ratio, it's the parts of air to parts of fuel. Although we don't particularly care about economy it is still important to have a car running as well as it can be. Sure you can run it rich and it won't matter but why waste fuel for less power than a leaner mix will make? Think about AFR as a percentage, 10:1 will use a farkload more fuel than 13:1, but as I mentioned no one can tell the difference except a very few people who do this stuff day in day out.
Anyhow this is why a wideband is necessary.
One more thing, a lean mix doesn't cause knock, too much timing causes knock. A lean mix will create more heat which reduces resistance to knock, but ultimately it's the timing that causes knock.
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Fark me I just wrote up some hectic info for you guys about na e85 tuning etc and the farken forum logged me out and lost the post. I ain't farken writing all that out again 🤬
But yeah a wideband is needed to make the most of what the fuel has to offer cos if it's pig rich it will lose power, same as too lean. It'll run fine tho and unless you're a matrix level tuna you won't even be able to tell the difference.
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It is something I have seen in the tune and can be changed. That aside, it doesn't seems to affect the rpm pickup.
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There are 2 main timing maps, Borderline Knock and MBT Spark.
Simply put the borderline knock table will do most of the heavy lifting and after various corrections the pcm will mostly use this table to give you a final spark number.
The MBT Spark table is supposed to be the maximum spark needed, after corrections, to make the most power with a fuel that prevents detonation.
You can't just copy the MBT table to the Borderline Knock table and call it a day. Just because a fuel wont knock, it does not mean that the flame propogation will reach maximum torque on the conrod at the same time as another fuel that also wont knock.
So to answer your question about what else you need to make it happen, you need to understand what you're doing as far as tuning it goes, and you'll need a dyno to accurately dial in the ignition timing.
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Not really. I know a little about it but not enough to give a definitive answer.
Compare it to stock to see what it was originally.
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Too easy mate, the more we share the more we all know, and the better off we all are.
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Assuming that the car is running those timing numbers as the actual final timing and it is following that lambda...
That 98 tune looks ok, it might have too much timing from 4500 up but maybe not. Before it comes on boost, before 2250, you might be able to get more timing into it, perhaps 2 or 3 degrees. You'd wanna verify with knock ears, I use tuner nerd. 8 degrees for 18psi is a good starting point with a cold intercooler. Leave the iat spark correction stock and it'll do it's job when it heats up. The fuel looks good too.
On E85 you can run more timing than you have there. It will make power the whole way up to 20 degrees but DO NOT put that much into a stock motor. I would add 4 degrees the whole way up to 4000rpm, for a max of 17 degrees, then carry that number out to redline. I would lean it out a bit as you can run E85 leaner than 98. Make it the same as your 98 tune or even 0.1 leaner. You could let it drop straight to 17 degrees after it comes on boost if you felt like it.
If you have load in your log you can cross reference load and rpm to see exactly where the tune goes through the map. Tuner nerd records boost, rpm, afr and knock noise so that will also show you where it knocks, if at all. It comes with headphones too so you use them first then use the software to pinpoint it.
Fyi you can run an engine very lean and it'll be fine, but letting it knock will hurt it. Don't run it lean all the time but having it go lean while tuning is fine, providing it doesn't knock from too much timing. Cylinder heat reduces resistance to knock so there is a correlation there. At the above mentioned timing figures it will not knock on E85, even if your factory knock sensor is recording noise. I turn the knock sensors off for E85 but generally leave them on for 98.
It's worth a mention that boost spikes from a gear change in an auto car on 98, can and will cause knock if it isn't addressed.
Anyhow there's a bit of info, it's what I would do for road tuning. I have a reasonable amount of dyno experience having done some 150 runs on my home built and self tuned 711awkw territory, as well as many other customer cars. You will find a bit more power on the dyno but that info will get you 95% of it. No need to run a stock motor too hard anyway.
Final bit of advice for this post, keep your wideband where you can see it and periodically check that the fuel is there at wot. A blocked fuel filter, blocked injector baskets or failing fuel pump will lean it out.
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It is already incredibly easy to find the knock threshold for 98, peak power timing on e85 is also fairly commonly known, as well as easy to find with a dyno.
The stock timing maps are very close to perfect off boost, there are very minor gains to be had, and generally only need some adjustment when the boost is turned up.
Live tuning would be a cool feature but I don't think it would speed up the tuning process, given that most tuners already know where the timing needs to be set.
Even with large cams and custom os, the learning curve is fairly easy to dial in the fuel.
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No they still work.
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It's worth having the extra bung imo. Take your dump or mid pipe into a shop and they should do it for under $100.
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1 hour ago, dat111 said:
ive also read on the forum that its opposite way around lesser numbers are more sensitivity
so which is whichLower is less sensitive.
Imo you can lower them by 20% and be fine. If you lower them by 30% you will crack a piston.
Don't take my word for it tho, get some knock ears and work it out yourself. Tuning a stock motor and specifically the knock maps without knock ears is asking for trouble.
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Yeah nah you don't need lube to install it. How well is it stuck in there? If it's properly jammed in there then leave it. If it comes out easily then perhaps clean it off and reinstall it, providing it's undamaged.
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42 minutes ago, dat111 said:
need to do front seal, as i wasnt meant to use lube on the converter seal)
You need lube on the inside of the seal. A splash of trans fluid is fine but a dry converter into a dry seal is not.
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26 minutes ago, Superb said:
It is a modified housing but it's looking like I'm going external gate.
Are you any good with a die grinder? You can use a high speed drill and a long carbide bit too.
Before you go external gate you should check your turbine housing and make sure there is a good port job on it. You want a nice radius going into the wg hole and you can actually raise the roof slightly (wg hole facing up) so there is less height to the angle into it. I leave the back side of the hole square to help with wg priority. That combined with minimal preload should give you a much lower minimum boost. It takes about an hours worth of grinding to go from stock to perfect. Suffice to say, don't touch the seat or it will probably leak.
I recently did this to a pulsar 3584rs with a TS 12psi actuator, decent preload and straight through 3.5 inch exhaust. I could run as low as 13psi the whole way to redline. Same turbo with untouched turbine housing on my territory with a very free flowing custom 4 inch exhaust and it would boost spike to 28psi with 0 duty.
Anyhow there's some info for you and other passers by. It's what I would be doing before spending money and if it doesn't help it's only some wasted time.
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Pic from his file in the post where he said, "The desired boost table auF16459 is set correctly".
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I opened his file and saw that it was filled with 12psi except the lower line. It is all in degrees C, not boost by gear.
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@Superb Don't run it to redline until you have verified that the boost isn't gonna skyrocket. Just bring it up slowly in a high gear like 5th so you can easily catch it if it runs away.
INFO: Ford Spark
in Falcon HOWTO Guides
Posted
Having a knock sensor unplugged will cause it to pull timing. I've seen this happen a couple of times, once was me forgetting to plug it in and the other was the rear sensor plug being snapped off.