hjtrbo

I've been adding in more injector cut lately with the view to back out some of the spark cut on WOT shifting to help with boost spikes. The down side of this is the injector cut plays a larger part in the torque reduction at mid torque shifts. With the TCC locked up during shift I can feel the injector cut pulses through the drive line. It's pretty horrible and initially made me revert back some of those changes. After some searching I found a ZF parameter that sets a minimum torque level that must be reached before injector cut is allowed. Adjusted it today and it works as advertised. Happy again. auF11857

Righto, more to learn!

Calling it done. Is it perfect no. It's good enough. As per @Puffwagon advice dropping the wastegate down a tad worked well. My target was 18psi so I went back to open loop and set the WG up to give me 16psi. Then turned on closed loop. Pretty happy with the results. Left overboost at stock -2.2psi. Underboost was significantly altered to get the PID to work earlier. Also managed to get underboost WG back to 1.00 for maximum spool up response. P & I have been modified a fair bit. All other hysteresis stuff etc I left stock. Before and after tune for comparison if anyone finds them useful. Start tune is full open loop. Final tune is full closed loop. Wastegate is IWG75 with flapper port onto an GT3582 (F6) turbo. Final log also included so you can see whats what. Can also compare to stock so nothing to hide. Mk1 FG XR6T. I wish they had they had derivative gain in the tune. I found with just having P & I there is compromise between staying on the target and rejecting disturbances. Until someone shows me something better so I know what I need to aim for I'm sticking with what I've got. Can't wait to get the E85 back in. Got 17deg of timing to try out at 18psi. Already starting to droll at the thought of it. 5th gear WOT starting at 1500rpm with intermittent throttle lifts to disturb the boost controller. A little overdamped but gets it on the 2nd swing 3rd gear WOT pull starting at 1700rpm. WG at 1.0 to spool then catches it. WG at 1.0 at the end of the pull so no more boost 3rd 4th 5th rip starting at 2500rpm. Stayed within the bounds until the last shift which had a bit of spike. More work to do on torque reduction strategy 97d_Final.teclog 90_In Car_Open Loop.tec 97_In Car_Closed Loop Boost 7d.tec

Negative. Still at default -2.2psi. I'm trying to leave that scaler alone as I have already been bitten before when I had a wastegate signal line leak and I was running max boost for a little while before I knew better. Extending the underboost range has helped alot. It gets it onto the PID controller earlier into the boost ramp. I've nearly got it not hitting auF0296. If anything it barely just clips it. I think once I implement the change below I'll be golden. What it should do is still let boost come on quick when ramping up from low rpm but when I am already at mid to high rpm (I.e. the getting ready to pass a car in 3rd gear scenario ) it should ever so slightly taper in the commanded boost which will reduce the error term when it clicks over to the PID loop. You're going to tell me I'm over thinking it again.....

As per @Puffwagon have the underboost DC raised and working at 0.8 now. Next run I'll set it back to 1.0 and see if I can get it to work. Few more adjustments to the gains and started modifying the underboost table. Its actually quite a challenge to tune. Getting it right for a idle 3rd to WOT rip up through the gears is one thing, and I think I got it. Then when I'm doing 100km/h and pull the shifter back to 3rd and to simulate passing a car its not quite right. So I dumb it down a bit for that scenario then it requires a redo of the WOT run. Anyway, lots of back and forward and getting closer. Fully understand now why people leave it full open loop. Now, if anyone out there would be willing to share a nice cheery picked screen shot of a closed loop WOT log run through a couple of gears I'd sure appreciate it. Need to know what I'm aiming for.

Bloody engineers

In the next tune for tomorrows run to work. Thanks man, I always appreciate your help! 🍻

Yeah understand. This is just the start of the journey. Just needed to get it under control to start with.... Give me 2 weeks You'll hate me for this: Against your better judgment the PI gains adjustment seems logical. A (slightly) larger turbo, aftermarket wastegate and port mod have changed the overall control system characteristics. In the Industrial Automation world, a change like this would trigger a re-calibration of the control loop so I am just calling on that experience as I have nothing else to go on...

damn, that was boringly easy to fix. Still not perfect but good enough to keep moving forward and get some nice tight control. Cut the gains in half, zero'd out the adaptive feed forward, halved the underboost duty cycle. 3rd to 4th Before After - Still some tweaking to do but heaps better and very driveable 5th gear pull before, fucken disaster After - Close to perfect

Plctalk!, crickey haven't been on that site for years since I switched careers. Thinking out loud, the fact I already have my oscillations I was just going to Ziegler Nichols it and see what happens.... Thanks for the link to the software. I'll definately play with it.

Thanks Rolls. Leave it all with me. Plenty to play with

It's a turbosmart IWG75. Yes flapper mod has been carried out. I have no problem in open loop. Based on that I point to the closed loop control being my issue. Most of it is still set at default. I noticed it's quite fast to react and the oscillations are the same period. That suggests an over damped control loop. I'll cut the gains and soften the clips to try and make the response slow and doughy. I can tighten things up later once I have control.

Hmmm, more work is needed. 3rd gear roll on WOT up to redline, all is well. Do it again but shift to 4th. No good. Boost oscillates under and overboost. 5th gear roll on, oscillates under and overboost. Time to have a play....

I'll check it out. Thanks.

Hey team, just wondering if I could get a sanity check on the included log? The log is from the file "91_In Car_Closed Loop Boost 2.tec" This is my first time switching on closed loop boost control. I followed the guides etc. The control looks okish overall. There are 2 spots that I have since adjusted. The first spot is the initial transition from underboost to closed loop. I have softened up the target boost and dropped the duty cycle a bit to try and get a ramp in as opposed to the light switch like action that I have in that log. Hoping that will avoid the initial boost spike I get. The 2nd spot is the large correction around 5000rpm. I added a bit more to the duty cycle in that area. Started raining so will check again next time I go out for a run. The file labelled "92_Ready to load.tec" is the adjustments I made to address the 2 spots noted here. Interesting to get 100% duty cycle up top. I did not expect that. Have bought some plumbing fittings to do a boost leak test on the pipe work. Turbo is also starting to blow a bit of smoke so time for a new cartridge. 98 fuel, wideband matching nicely, FG Mk1 XR6T, F6 turbo. Turbosmart actuator with 12psi spring. Boost target is 17.5psi. Butt dyno got 370rwkw (no correction) not bad considering the air wasn't the greatest today. Still need to get those knock ears on.... 92_Ready to Load.tec 91_In Car_Closed Loop Boost 2.tec 91b.teclog Master List.tlo

Just wanted to pass on a finding. I was never seeing adaption values change. I have an external cooler installed so trans temp never makes it above 70degC. They generally sat 50-65degC. Might see 70+ on a rare day. Ultimately I would like to install the Derale thermal bypass valve and a cooler fan to maintain constant trans temps around 80degC. I do not think the wide operating temperature range that my trans runs at the moment is optimal for adaption, but I have no facts to back that up, just logic that thermal stuff generally likes to be at constant temperatures. Take that with a grain of salt. I reduced the adaption value temperature setpoint ZF00027 from 70 to 50 and now the box has adapted to the new solenoids and seals I put in. I think there is no value in reducing this value if you run the factory heat exchanger setup as your trans temps will be 80+degC. Obviously log trans temps and if they're below 70degC nearly always then I then I think this mod is for you. Hope this helps someone.

It just means they've pulled pressure out to achieve the shift profile. Can be caused by fluid change or pressure adjustments. Logically lower numbers indicate less wear, but of course if the line pressure is raised or torque mis reported then the box is smart enough to adapt up or down to achieve what it wants to see internally. Side note, there is another set of adaptions you want to log, they are the quick charge times. There's 5 of them but only 3 have values. Clutch A B & C.

Good move. It would be nice to have the ability to save the channel list as well as the layouts. That way I could have a mustang setup with my 16 high speed channels selected, then quickly flick over to my go to falcon channel list that also has 16 high speed selected. If that makes sense. Effectively the channel list and layouts become separate items. If your layout has a channel in it that is not in the channel list then it will not be graphed. (Same as HP).

@Matt@pcmtec awesome, thanks for that.

Just wondering what the column headings are when looking at the tlo files. The reason I ask is I maintain a common 'master' channel list then from there have different layouts, similar to the way HP do it. In V1.25 I did this in excel and had a little macro that exported to multiple tlo files. I'm migrating that across now to V2.11. 2.11 has extra columns. These are what I think they are.... ID, Order (0-15 for charts), Low Range, High Range, Display Name, High Speed, V1.25 Legacy Stuff???, V1.25 Legacy Stuff???, Logging Name Could some please enlighten me? @Roland@pcmtec @Kirby@pcmtec

That will do it. And it will also show what your injector data is like. There may be some wincing from the hard core, but a few to 5 percent adjustment of stoich here or there to get the trims back is ok IMHO. If you're having to rape it then something is wrong.

Had a read up. Nice unit! If you can be fucked there is a shift in progress output that you would wire to a relay that will switch in a resistor to the IAT circuit. Put a large timing value in that cell for a poor mans torque management. T-MAP Mk1 FG XR6T.pdf

I have the tuner nerd setup. Being using it on my VF which I am more at home on. Bloody great bit of gear. Yeah wide band is were I can see it. Still got a boost spike still on shift. Not as bad as it was when I got the car it used to spike up to 3psi. Have done the usual tricks, now I'm just slowly bringing in a little more injector cut and backing out the spark cut a bit. Got the spike to just over 1psi now so big improvement. Have to be careful and try and keep the reported torque during shift at around the same level as before so I know I'm not hurting the trans. Thanks very much for your insights and guidance. Bloody legend mate 👍

Was thinking for blokes like me who don't know where those limits are and would like to learn it by doing. I'm looking to hire dyno + operator time at $250 an hour so this method will save me a lot of money. I only envisage this method would be used for WOT. I'll be bold, you could save me some time and money here lol. FG Mk1 XR6T, stock cams, exhaust + dump + flapper mod, F6 turbo, standard intake with hole cut in airbox, stepped intercooler, valve springs, 18psi boost both 98 and e85, 1000cc injectors. Commanded fuel vs actual +/-2% depending on atmospheric conditions verified with AEM wideband. 98 Spark & Fuel e85 Spark & Fuel

Ok, Seen this mentioned and it got me thinking. Build a square wave oscillator of the appropriate amplitude and frequency range. Flex fuel custom OS. Pay attention to the spark blend map and add in some reasonable numbers to the flex timing table that are well above those in the 98 table. Steady state on the dyno, wind the oscillator up to increase spark. Find MBT or knock limit for load and rpm. Write timing down on a piece of paper. Repeat for next cell. Then repeat for fuel. Am I dreaming or was the guy who mentioned this but with regards to a GM PCM actually onto something? https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?13171-E38-Flex-Fuel-On-the-fly-timing-and-fueling-anyone-interested&p=116612&viewfull=1#post116612