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Unable to locate injector data.


KyleBruh
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So I’ve attempted this afternoon to gauge on my car and tune it for it’s setup.

So I’m be run into an issue either going to have to revert back to stock injectors and tune it for stock injectors.

as I have 440cc Bosch 42lb injectors I’ve scaled the forums top to bottom to try find data to just transfer them over to the tables or just find the general data to scale then in is it a long process something me and my mate aren’t actually too familiar with I’ve showed him some files I’ve skimmed over but he says they’re incorrect (I have attached them below as these are all I could find).
 

as I’m currently running at idle 0.7 lambda. Which is what my mate is running at WOT with an lpg block.

and another question my timing table seems out of whack as it’s running 10 deg retard in timing at idle also. Is something going on?

48843E5B-8C4A-43A3-80A9-84AEA79AD214.png

5525EBAB-F306-4C67-ABBA-C991995D6FD2.jpeg

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Hi Kyle,

 

I haven't actually fitted my 42lb injectors yet, so i don't know how accurate this scaling is.  I've just used the official bosch data you have already above and used excel to calc for base pressure.  I do see it is different(leaner) compared with CAPA data for the 42lb injectors, but that might be a mail order tune fudge factor.  obviously once installed you can drive it off boost and watch you fuel trims to get an idea of how accurate.... or even better install wideband and use real data to adjust in real time.

Anyway, Excel sheet attached.

 

Hopefully people with more experience will chime in if i've made stupid mistakes.

 

regards,

Justin

INJECTOR CALCS.xlsx

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dont forget that table is at 39psi. if you have a turbo fuel regulator the fuel pressure is around 60psi.

the FG f6 uses 440cc injectors, they may not be the same injectors as the ones you have but the data might get you in the ballpark. well close enough to testing's if you took those numbers (assuming u have a turbo fuel reg).

try comparing your injector data against HAEE4V2.

 

 

0.7 is verry rich for a barra at idle, even inside the cold map. outside of the cold map the barra will use the 02 sensor lots and really try to hit 1.0...so your data is way off.

 

 

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On 3/11/2021 at 1:30 PM, Roland@pcmtec said:

If you haven't already have a read of this thread. Might be of assistance.

 h

I have had a look at that but it’s a bit far out of my knowledge, bit hard for me to make sense of.

 

2 hours ago, BeerTurbo said:

dont forget that table is at 39psi. if you have a turbo fuel regulator the fuel pressure is around 60psi.

the FG f6 uses 440cc injectors, they may not be the same injectors as the ones you have but the data might get you in the ballpark. well close enough to testing's if you took those numbers (assuming u have a turbo fuel reg).

try comparing your injector data against HAEE4V2.

 

 

0.7 is verry rich for a barra at idle, even inside the cold map. outside of the cold map the barra will use the 02 sensor lots and really try to hit 1.0...so your data is way off.

 

 

 

Yeah I know, it’s super rich, but can’t really seem to find any data for 440cc injectors until now to go from, all I could find was that as I attached above with the wrong base fuel pressure which I’m still yet to try the data that @jpm600has provided regarding 440cc injectors @58psi fuel pressure and yes I have been informed by a friend that I could use those as a reference just haven’t had the time to try it out.

 

It’s a factory turbo ba ute (unfortunately btr) but apparently with all of my mods I could achieve around the 400-450hp mark.

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21 hours ago, KyleBruh said:

I have had a look at that but it’s a bit far out of my knowledge, bit hard for me to make sense of.

 

Well we all start somewhere don't we...

 

This is a simple way of looking at it;

 

Think of the slope numbers as how big the ecu thinks the injector is. For the sake of making it easy, lets assume both slopes are the same number. If you make them 100 the ecu will run an afr of 14.7 for example. It wont actually be that afr but lets just say it is.

If we make the slope number smaller, the ecu thinks the injector is smaller and will open the injector for longer which will run richer.

So there is one way of thinking about how the size of the slopes work.

The reason there are 2 slopes, hi and lo, is because the injector doesn't flow a linear amount of fuel when it is only open for a short amount of time. Lets just say it flows 1mL when it is open for 1ms. It would make sense that it would flow 2mL for 2 ms and 10mL for 10ms right? The injector doesn't actually flow like that. It is kinda wonky and the first 1ms to 2ms doesn't flow the same, so that area gets a low slope number. The reason it's called the low slope isn't because the number is smaller, it's because it is the start of the slope.

Ideally we would have just one slope number but until we have injectors that flow the same from start to finish we have to break them up (get it?!? break point?!?) so we get the right amount of fuel at idle as well as normal driving. All injectors are different which is why we have different break points to change where the slopes swap.

We have a breakpoint number which tells the ecu when to swap from the low slope to the high slope. That means when there is enough fuel demand to get past the wonky part (usually just after idle) it'll swap from the low slope number to the high slope number.

 

Here's a couple of pictures to understand the wonky part of the slope

 

AWkuy-nT0EPr9XIOcTVc5wrd9uAgadMcbjynooyT

 

ImI0VoVXiXJxiXiC_F0Xwa8S9Qe4PIZA-eODzT9J

 

 

 

 

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I highly recommend checking these guys out for some paid training if you want to learn more to start following this stuff as injectors are just the start of it, it gets more complicated as you go in deeper. We will also be offering training material this year and hopefully an in person training course. This will be via DSR Performance in VIC

https://calibratedsuccess.com/

https://thetuningschool.com/

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On 3/18/2021 at 6:24 PM, Puffwagon said:

 

Well we all start somewhere don't we...

 

This is a simple way of looking at it;

 

Think of the slope numbers as how big the ecu thinks the injector is. For the sake of making it easy, lets assume both slopes are the same number. If you make them 100 the ecu will run an afr of 14.7 for example. It wont actually be that afr but lets just say it is.

If we make the slope number smaller, the ecu thinks the injector is smaller and will open the injector for longer which will run richer.

So there is one way of thinking about how the size of the slopes work.

The reason there are 2 slopes, hi and lo, is because the injector doesn't flow a linear amount of fuel when it is only open for a short amount of time. Lets just say it flows 1mL when it is open for 1ms. It would make sense that it would flow 2mL for 2 ms and 10mL for 10ms right? The injector doesn't actually flow like that. It is kinda wonky and the first 1ms to 2ms doesn't flow the same, so that area gets a low slope number. The reason it's called the low slope isn't because the number is smaller, it's because it is the start of the slope.

Ideally we would have just one slope number but until we have injectors that flow the same from start to finish we have to break them up (get it?!? break point?!?) so we get the right amount of fuel at idle as well as normal driving. All injectors are different which is why we have different break points to change where the slopes swap.

We have a breakpoint number which tells the ecu when to swap from the low slope to the high slope. That means when there is enough fuel demand to get past the wonky part (usually just after idle) it'll swap from the low slope number to the high slope number.

 

Here's a couple of pictures to understand the wonky part of the slope

 

AWkuy-nT0EPr9XIOcTVc5wrd9uAgadMcbjynooyT

 

ImI0VoVXiXJxiXiC_F0Xwa8S9Qe4PIZA-eODzT9J

 

 

 

 

Sweet bro you made it a lot easier to understand.

 

I’ll reply properly when I get home anyway just been a bit busy to be able to respond to anything just reacted to let you know I’ve seen it.

1 hour ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

I highly recommend checking these guys out for some paid training if you want to learn more to start following this stuff as injectors are just the start of it, it gets more complicated as you go in deeper. We will also be offering training material this year and hopefully an in person training course. This will be via DSR Performance in VIC

https://calibratedsuccess.com/

https://thetuningschool.com/

Yeah I will definitely look into it, as I’d love to do all of my car myself as I’m rebuilding the engine just hit 290k on the clock still running strong for a ba, but the gearbox has now lost 3rd and 4th clutches are gone in it so it’s given me the motivation to manual swap it.

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