Btr tuning for Boost !

[Plumbs]

Ok , been a battle. Have blown up the original btr and now onto a  BBE built box . 
pics below . Been a build that started 2019 . Built motor but with stock F6 pistons and rods , 22 though ring gaps ( don’t cut them with a grinder as that was a bad mistake!) Hand ported fg head ( by yours truly!) fg na cams and manifold . Plasmaman intercooler kit ( highly recommended it !) All the usual mods and live on 10 Psi on e 10 pushing around 400 rwhp ( it’s road tuned but . The base tune was 326 rwhp on 6 psi at Forced , as a guide ! 4 psi depending on density altitude is about 18 rwhp per Psi of boost ) so it’s up there and my dyno butt seems to confirm it ! For 2.3 Ton car it boogies ! The ultimate shopping trolley! Is tuned to 14-15 psi on 98 . But it’s doesn’t need it . Just break shite ! So this is just the intro . Been wanting to do this for a very long time . But wanted to prove it in my case and pass on what I’ve learnt . Disclaimer! I am just a plumber/ Gasfitter in a small little dodgy town . Not a pro tuner or mechanic! I’ve done all the work myself with lots of breaking stuff and doing twice because I just didn’t know what I was doing . So be careful using my info and test for yourself please? 

[Plumbs]

Ok , so Ford did a wonderful job of tuning the Btr for the Na Barra that never ever really gets flat footed except maybe for overtaking! So They tuned it to slip heaps on the change and shift early for comfort and economy . Great for a stock car  but destructive with a 550 fwhp Barra now just been chucked in front . The tune in my opinion is why the btr gets such a bad wrap. It’s no power glide capable of handling 1000 plus hp like ever ! But tuned properly can handle some street hp and boost . You still have to be realistic as it it still a btr ! 
 

I think the main problem is that the ford engineers bled of line pressure on the shifts, right when the torque of the turbo especially in a Barra is needed most . It’s also very important to run a trans cooler to keep the oil thick and the oil that is used is also very important. I feel the penrite full Syn that was recommended in the btr is grate Na . But destroyed the original box . From what I could see the 1–2 drum and clutch band was gonski and toast ! 
I just use the oil that was specifically designed for it . Castrol trans max TQ 95 .

Ok battery is going flat . Time to watch the cricket for a bit while it’s charging . Shall be back with more . 
ps , more pics of build and ported heads etc . 

[Plumbs]

Ok continuing on ! First tune mod I did was the kickdown pedal.

Haapaa2 strategy.

auf1908. I set this to 45% . Stock is 100 % . Which imo puts excessive torque through the box when the turbo comes on with excessive driver demand . 
you will have to alter your traction control settings too in the “ how too’s “ section. This will become important later .

other wise when the box Is requesting torque reduction, the whole motor goes into a full engine cut via spark and fuel ( I think ) . 
also while we are in the same area I found ,

auf1618 lockup inhibitor input shaft torque threshold.

I found with the new built box and the torque threshold set on 1020 lbf. The box would want to destroy itself under partial throttle/ boost conditions . 
Set my for a safe 300 lbf which has saved the lockup clutch in my case . Also has given it bit of a kickdown gear in 4 th going up hills etc. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Plumbs

[Plumbs]

Moving right along now . The biggie !! Is the s5 global temps!! 
auf1512 The theory or code for this was written by someone who had mated with Aliens and not by Ford Engineers! As it’s all gobbly gook . The cells 1-8 are I believe just the resolution of the temperature scale correction . The green first cell is the temperature of the oil . And the consensus for the top green cells is believed to be voltages to the solenoids .

so I first started with -500 in all of the fields with gave everyone a sore neck and was hard on the diff/running gear , especially cold . With the wife telling me again for the 400 th time “ YOUR NOT A MECHANIC, you are a PLUMBER  !! ) lol ! Which is the standard response of you have stuffed up , fix it !! 😁😁😁.

so after lots of testing and flashes , about 30 in all at a guess I have come up with what’s in the picture. It seems to be a good compromise. Just done give your box a hard time till it’s properly warmed up ! As the first 3 lines are taken from the stock files. So there is plenty of slip . 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Plumbs

[Plumbs]

Next was the gear changes in drive was awful! You would get just going along in 1st and would change immediately. Going with Fords economy program! And again one would have to have excessive Drver demand via the pedal and again put the box through unnecessary turbo torque! 
 

ABSOLUTELY! No wonder why these boxes failed ! Just in general let along with turbo torque! 

[Plumbs]

Next , is torque reduction. In these tables if you just zeroed the table out , there would be not any spark retard . Mine is set at -19 deg . All of these tables produced brilliant results. But you have to modify your traction control for satisfactory results.

So now, if I have it in tiptronic in 1st and do a pull through the gears under 70% throttle . When I pull 2 nd there is a surge forward and a nice Gt35-82 dose and then straight back into business again! Sounds sooo good . Then with the decel spark ! Lots of pops and Crackles on the let off ! This Terry just sounds awesome! The bad thing is I’m in the car and outside it must sound 100 times better !! 
So first one in the torque red map is 

auf1269

2nd is auf2523

Ok that’s about it . Please share your experiences as these btr boxes just seems to be very secretive and get a bad wrap ! 
 

Also with the gear changes I forgot to mention what the cels are ? These are all on the vertical! 0 cell is power demand but makes no sense again with ford speek ! 
cell 1 is 1st to 2 nd . The number is x by the 1st ratio to give the revs in that the pcm will demand a shift Eg can’t remember the ratio but 2.69 x 1280=  3443 rpm’s on cell 6 / drivers demand in first . So vert cells 1 through to 4 are the upchanges . The rest are the down changes and converter lock up . I didn’t change these . 
but one could muck with them to produce a “ race box “ lol . But it was quite fine for me . 
 

Ok keep us in the loop if anyone has info to share especially if I’m wrong with my information? 
regards Graham.

[hjtrbo]

A lot of good info. Thanks for sharing! What's next? Big HP build? Drive and enjoy?

[Plumbs]

1 hour ago, hjtrbo said:

A lot of good info. Thanks for sharing! What's next? Big HP build? Drive and enjoy?

Thanks ! Just drive and enjoy ! So good going up the mountains! Soooo much torque! Diesel like ! Cheers ! 🙂👍

[Bill]

Great write up Graham. Time to enjoy!! 

[Chriswa]

On 12/10/2022 at 4:34 PM, Plumbs said:

Next , is torque reduction. In these tables if you just zeroed the table out , there would be not any spark retard . Mine is set at -19 deg . All of these tables produced brilliant results. But you have to modify your traction control for satisfactory results.

So now, if I have it in tiptronic in 1st and do a pull through the gears under 70% throttle . When I pull 2 nd there is a surge forward and a nice Gt35-82 dose and then straight back into business again! Sounds sooo good . Then with the decel spark ! Lots of pops and Crackles on the let off ! This Terry just sounds awesome! The bad thing is I’m in the car and outside it must sound 100 times better !! 
So first one in the torque red map is 

auf1269

2nd is auf2523

Hey mate Great work, what Torque Reduction Tables did you set to -19 Deg? Cheers

[Plumbs]

Hi Chris , none of the torque reduction tables are at -19 deg. The pcm uses the traction control function to facilitate gear changes via the torque tables . Sorry I should’ve done this at first . Here is the link in how to set your traction control?

https://forum.pcmtec.com/topic/241-howto-traction-control/

 

Otherwise right now , when u change gears under full pedal and boost . The motor actually cuts out . This is annoying to say the least ! Because that healthy cammed LS commadore is just about to drive around you lol ! Or BMW ! ( up to the speed limit of course! ). As the turbo despools and looses boost. 

Just follow the torque red tables that I have here and try that . You will see the aggressive traction control. Then adjust your traction control as per the link above . 
regards Graham! 
ps Merry Christmas 🤶 

[Chriswa]

Thanks mate very informative. Appreciate the fast reply,

Merry Christmas to you and a happy new year

 

[Bentles]

following.. will come back later and fully read 

[Plumbs]

Hi All, 

         While away on holidays loaded to the hilt with a dog in toe too! 6 hours of driving (on 1 tank of e10! near 500 km's) with also jusy holiday driving around. My Lovely wife was complaining about a few things about the car!

Had troubles with hot starts and stalling in gear from idle to a quick stab with the fg throttle body etc . I fixed these after a lot of head scratching, but that's for another thread! 

But main problem was, even with trying to compromise on the s5 globals. Just normal driving in traffic would produce very stiff gear changes and again, sore necks. It was a problem, as the Wife was just not enjoying driving the car in traffic. Ok on the highway, but horrible in a Surburban aeras.

Ok I came up with a solution, but @Roland@pcmtec just an idea!

Could we have part of a custom tune for btr cars that we could have the s5 duty cycle tied into load eg load v duty cycle and maybe even with rpm cells to 6000 rpm? Just a thought.

Ok, so the solution I came up with was basically, I just went 100 % in all of the fields in the torque reduction tables. And it worked! light throttle conditions u can feel retard spark come on during the changes and nice quick and softer changes!

I'll post pic of tables below, individual cars may need fine tuning, but have a try?

[Plumbs]

[Roland@pcmtec]

22 hours ago, Plumbs said:

Ok I came up with a solution, but @Roland@pcmtec just an idea!

Could we have part of a custom tune for btr cars that we could have the s5 duty cycle tied into load eg load v duty cycle and maybe even with rpm cells to 6000 rpm? Just a thought.

We aren't actively developing any new firmware for the Falcon anymore. It would be possible but it would be at a huge cost which we couldn't justify.

Using the built in torque reduction as you found is your best bet. You can adjust how much spark retard is commanded as well via the torque requestors, min spark ratio for torque retard and finally the min spark clip.

[Plumbs]

1 hour ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

We aren't actively developing any new firmware for the Falcon anymore. It would be possible but it would be at a huge cost which we couldn't justify.

Using the built in torque reduction as you found is your best bet. You can adjust how much spark retard is commanded as well via the torque requestors, min spark ratio for torque retard and finally the min spark clip.

Ok thanks for the reply, I’ll look into the other torque requesters that u have said . 
cheers . 

[BarraTuna]

Thanks mate for this

 

Further to Add

Turn off torque limiter in 2nd,

This will stop the car going into Trans Truncation mode, ( Leans the engine out to reduce torque ) or Torque enleanment mode, Its better to retard the timing instead

 

To remove the limit, Change high cell from 400 to 590 so it matches 1st and 3rd

See pic below

 

 

 

Edited March 12 by BarraTuna

[BeerTurbo]

On 1/3/2023 at 12:30 PM, Plumbs said:

Ok thanks for the reply, I’ll look into the other torque requesters that u have said . 
cheers . 

Hey @Plumbs cant believe i only just found this thread, ive been following all the BTR hints you have give out in other threads. 

are you sure the BTR commands the TRC tq reduction on shifts? the zf uses the Trans Shift Modulation TQ reduction. Are you just triggering TRC as you have to much power?

can you clear up the btr shift map names and what they actually do, i believe you said somewhere else that towing map is actually performance mode?

[Plumbs]

On 3/20/2024 at 4:54 PM, BeerTurbo said:

Hey @Plumbs cant believe i only just found this thread, ive been following all the BTR hints you have give out in other threads. 

are you sure the BTR commands the TRC tq reduction on shifts? the zf uses the Trans Shift Modulation TQ reduction. Are you just triggering TRC as you have to much power?

can you clear up the btr shift map names and what they actually do, i believe you said somewhere else that towing map is actually performance mode?

Hi Mate , gone back to normal life now plumbing etc ! I don’t want to comment as I’m now quite rusty! Would take time to brush up to reply! Sorry 😞.

But the btr box is doing everything it should when changing under boost and is as perfect as I can get it . Also the motor is still going strong . Drove it to Airlie Beech last year . Regards Graham.

[Plumbs]

On 1/2/2023 at 2:09 PM, Plumbs said:

Hi All, 

         While away on holidays loaded to the hilt with a dog in toe too! 6 hours of driving (on 1 tank of e10! near 500 km's) with also jusy holiday driving around. My Lovely wife was complaining about a few things about the car!

Had troubles with hot starts and stalling in gear from idle to a quick stab with the fg throttle body etc . I fixed these after a lot of head scratching, but that's for another thread! 

But main problem was, even with trying to compromise on the s5 globals. Just normal driving in traffic would produce very stiff gear changes and again, sore necks. It was a problem, as the Wife was just not enjoying driving the car in traffic. Ok on the highway, but horrible in a Surburban aeras.

Ok I came up with a solution, but @Roland@pcmtec just an idea!

Could we have part of a custom tune for btr cars that we could have the s5 duty cycle tied into load eg load v duty cycle and maybe even with rpm cells to 6000 rpm? Just a thought.

Ok, so the solution I came up with was basically, I just went 100 % in all of the fields in the torque reduction tables. And it worked! light throttle conditions u can feel retard spark come on during the changes and nice quick and softer changes!

I'll post pic of tables below, individual cars may need fine tuning, but have a try?

Just an update, I got the s5 globals well …. Perfect ! After a lot of trial and error. I probably should post a pick of my s5 table ? When I get time if people want me too? 

[samireland]

On 3/29/2024 at 9:03 PM, Plumbs said:

Just an update, I got the s5 globals well …. Perfect ! After a lot of trial and error. I probably should post a pick of my s5 table ? When I get time if people want me too? 

Yes I would be interested, I've learnt a lot from this thread

[Plumbs]

Hi Mate , the 0 Collum is the oil temp correction. So the first 2 collums are just stock . Then I just played with it from there . But I got it shifting fast enough without breaking the suspension or our necks . More positive numbers equals more slip . More negative numbers means quicker shifts. From what I have seen . ( I’m  no expert lol). 
my opinion, even if you have a built box , you will still destroy it just as quick especially Na turbo conversion strategy as it’s tuned for comfort not 800 foot pounds and 400 kws. 
So getting the above right between neck snapping and comfort is important. Like I said above . If we could have the s5 global tied into driver demand/ load v load retard on the gear changes , be a perfect world . Mucking with the s5 globals seems to be a compromise. 
bear in mind my wife’s daily ( which I’m barely allowed to drive as just loves it so much!) is living on 10 psi from my dyno butt says depending on outside air temp . Is 380 rwhp in 35 deg ish to what feels like 450 in the really cold winters of about 4 deg c (10 psi e 10) ! The pcm really wacks in the timing and 15 psi is just nuts ! I’m scared of breaking the drive line not the motor. Motor is barely breaking a sweat ! 
I just spent nearly 6 k rebuilding the rear end due to the torque and also the nick snapping gear changes. So be warned. 
 

But the build has far exceeded all my expectations and my Wife loves it and the big block like v8 power/ torque combined with the 10-11 lts / 100 km fuel economy. It was a very hard road at first making mistakes and being upped by a worried wife eg are wasting lots of money and end up failing! 
 

But we got there ! It’s an awesome car that’s drives beautifully now ! 

Ps we also drove it Bathurst last year fully loaded even with firewood for camping ! Love it ! 

[BarraTuna]

On 4/2/2024 at 9:34 PM, Plumbs said:

Hi Mate , the 0 Collum is the oil temp correction. So the first 2 collums are just stock . Then I just played with it from there . But I got it shifting fast enough without breaking the suspension or our necks . More positive numbers equals more slip . More negative numbers means quicker shifts. From what I have seen . ( I’m  no expert lol). 
my opinion, even if you have a built box , you will still destroy it just as quick especially Na turbo conversion strategy as it’s tuned for comfort not 800 foot pounds and 400 kws. 
So getting the above right between neck snapping and comfort is important. Like I said above . If we could have the s5 global tied into driver demand/ load v load retard on the gear changes , be a perfect world . Mucking with the s5 globals seems to be a compromise. 
bear in mind my wife’s daily ( which I’m barely allowed to drive as just loves it so much!) is living on 10 psi from my dyno butt says depending on outside air temp . Is 380 rwhp in 35 deg ish to what feels like 450 in the really cold winters of about 4 deg c (10 psi e 10) ! The pcm really wacks in the timing and 15 psi is just nuts ! I’m scared of breaking the drive line not the motor. Motor is barely breaking a sweat ! 
I just spent nearly 6 k rebuilding the rear end due to the torque and also the nick snapping gear changes. So be warned. 
 

But the build has far exceeded all my expectations and my Wife loves it and the big block like v8 power/ torque combined with the 10-11 lts / 100 km fuel economy. It was a very hard road at first making mistakes and being upped by a worried wife eg are wasting lots of money and end up failing! 
 

But we got there ! It’s an awesome car that’s drives beautifully now ! 

Ps we also drove it Bathurst last year fully loaded even with firewood for camping ! Love it ! 

Awesome, Thanks Plumbs

[samireland]

Yeah thanks @Plumbs, I will have a play with this over the weekend.

Funny you mention Bathurst, I grew up in that area. If you ever get a chance to go for a cruise I recommend going from Lithgow out past Lake Lyell and then west along the Tarana Rd, some great corners and also a quiet dead straight bit that is almost 3km long

I remember going out to the pine forest out near Oberon and stealing Christmas trees with my Dad in his XF ute, three speed auto column shift with a bench seat. I guess that the transmission in that thing was the father to our BTRs.

[Plumbs]

Just thinking about it . With the multi tune you could have a kick ass tune 18 psi e 85 and all the fields -500 . Then street tune like above and then maybe something in between? 
 

I’ll get the one car multi tune one day and might do something like above ? 
anyway, I’ve gabbed on enough! Wishing everyone happy boosting !