Mick Posted December 10, 2022 Posted December 10, 2022 Is there a definite way to reset the learned adaptions on a ZF in FGmk2? turning them off and back on again is not resetting them And has anyone found anything to make the adaptions occur in less time? Quote
brettus Posted December 10, 2022 Posted December 10, 2022 Isn't the reset adaptions on the read/write screen (bottom right tick able setting)? Quote
hjtrbo Posted December 10, 2022 Posted December 10, 2022 No, it's been covered before, resets pcm stuff. From memory idle learn values and fuel trims??? If you search you'll find the thread where Roland give us the run down. The ZF adapt reset is a bit of a mystery. Some say the procedure available on this forum works, others say it doesn't. There is some bench flash software starting to make its way out to the public which is used for OS swaps. If that writes to the adapt area and resets it back to 0 would be awesome. No idea if it does. Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 10, 2022 Posted December 10, 2022 If someone in SA loans me a ZF falcon with high kms and a box that is heavily worn for a week I will figure it out. Until then we need sometime in the community to datalog the adaption values that hjtrbo found, try the various suggestions and report back. I've never tried but it might be possible for us to directly write to the dmrs used for adaption. I suspect they will be overwritten by kam on startup though. Quote
jakka351 Posted December 10, 2022 Posted December 10, 2022 Can you not drive it like you stole it for a bit and do a bit of enthusiastic adaptation re-learning Quote
hjtrbo Posted December 11, 2022 Posted December 11, 2022 2 hours ago, jakka351 said: Can you not drive it like you stole it for a bit and do a bit of enthusiastic adaptation re-learning Of course. The adaption values change over time that is for sure. I've been keeping an eye on mine. Some have improved with increased pressure but alas my E clutch adapts are getting worse. It's just a matter of time before the box comes out. Quote
Mick Posted December 11, 2022 Author Posted December 11, 2022 6 hours ago, hjtrbo said: No, it's been covered before, resets pcm stuff. From memory idle learn values and fuel trims??? If you search you'll find the thread where Roland give us the run down. The ZF adapt reset is a bit of a mystery. Some say the procedure available on this forum works, others say it doesn't. There is some bench flash software starting to make its way out to the public which is used for OS swaps. If that writes to the adapt area and resets it back to 0 would be awesome. No idea if it does. Which numbers is Roland talking about that you found? These ones? Quote
Mick Posted December 11, 2022 Author Posted December 11, 2022 4 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said: If someone in SA loans me a ZF falcon with high kms and a box that is heavily worn for a week I will figure it out. Until then we need sometime in the community to datalog the adaption values that hjtrbo found, try the various suggestions and report back. I've never tried but it might be possible for us to directly write to the dmrs used for adaption. I dislodge they will be overwritten by kam on startup though. is there anything you want me to try? Quote
hjtrbo Posted December 11, 2022 Posted December 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Mick said: Which numbers is Roland talking about that you found? These ones? yes Quote
Mick Posted December 11, 2022 Author Posted December 11, 2022 19 minutes ago, hjtrbo said: yes thanks, I've been logging those for a while now and they are what the topic is about, I'm also interested to know whether a positive number is adding pressure or it's reporting how much the pressure was too high. I always assumed it was adding Quote
hjtrbo Posted December 11, 2022 Posted December 11, 2022 Presume so. There is some docs I posted in another ZF thread somewhere here. One of them was out of a ZF training seminar where they listed the range of acceptable adapt values. 1 Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 11, 2022 Posted December 11, 2022 18 hours ago, Mick said: thanks, I've been logging those for a while now and they are what the topic is about, I'm also interested to know whether a positive number is adding pressure or it's reporting how much the pressure was too high. I always assumed it was adding Yep so check these values. Then try and "reset" them. Then datalog again and they should be back to 0 before you start the car, then they will slowly learn back to what they were before. There are various adders for how fast it can learn forwards and backwards. It doesnt really make sense for a clutch to get better, hence why when you put a new box in they dont like to unlearn the wear. I'm sure there are some PID gains you could adjust to speed up how fast it learns in the reverse direction. Quote
Mick Posted December 12, 2022 Author Posted December 12, 2022 8 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said: Yep so check these values. Then try and "reset" them. Then datalog again and they should be back to 0 before you start the car, then they will slowly learn back to what they were before. There are various adders for how fast it can learn forwards and backwards. It doesnt really make sense for a clutch to get better, hence why when you put a new box in they dont like to unlearn the wear. I'm sure there are some PID gains you could adjust to speed up how fast it learns in the reverse direction. I set ZF03182 to 0, flashed it, tuned on data logger and learned values were still there, I reset ZF03182 to 1 reflashed it again, checked with logger again and still the same values remaimed. FG Mk2 XR6 T Quote
Bill Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 46 minutes ago, Mick said: I set ZF03182 to 0, flashed it, tuned on data logger and learned values were still there, I reset ZF03182 to 1 reflashed it again, checked with logger again and still the same values remaimed. FG Mk2 XR6 T Did you start the car & put it in gear after changing it to 0 & then turn it off before flashing it back to 1? Quote
Mick Posted December 12, 2022 Author Posted December 12, 2022 18 minutes ago, Bill said: Did you start the car & put it in gear after changing it to 0 & then turn it off before flashing it back to 1? No I did not Quote
Mick Posted December 12, 2022 Author Posted December 12, 2022 27 minutes ago, Bill said: Did you start the car & put it in gear after changing it to 0 & then turn it off before flashing it back to 1? I redid it that way, still did not reset Quote
Bill Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 39 minutes ago, Mick said: I redid it that way, still did not reset Yeah, I didn't know if you'd done it or whether it would make a difference but thought I'd check, it's written as part of the procedure Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 One that's worth a shot is flashing a BF strategy into an FG or vice versa then putting the original os back. In most modern Fords they reset the KAM when that happens. 1 Quote
hjtrbo Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 ooh. I presume just the calibration segment(s) goes across? Or the OS as well? Quote
Mick Posted December 12, 2022 Author Posted December 12, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said: One that's worth a shot is flashing a BF strategy into an FG or vice versa then putting the original os back. In most modern Fords they reset the KAM when that happens. No chance of an issue by just flashing it in? Obviously not going to try to use it to run the car Edited December 12, 2022 by Mick Quote
Bill Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 8 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said: One that's worth a shot is flashing a BF strategy into an FG or vice versa then putting the original os back. In most modern Fords they reset the KAM when that happens. You'd need something like PCMFlash to change the TCM OS. I tried this with PCMTEC a long time ago & again this morning. I don't have a licenced FG TCM so it first prompts to licence the TCM as expected. It then determines the TCM part numbers don't match Program Error. Please contact [email protected]. Detailed information: Exception Message: ZF Part number of vehicle (DAI26832) does not match the part number of the file (DAC26840) Merging the serial number would brick the vehicle. You must only flash in a matching TCM OSID to the TCM. Source: Pcmtec.Editor Exception Format: _u3HBrE0jX7mWSGMMYVRpFPzKgdw StackTrace: at _ONL59ErIAD4BWw6Qc2htQIbeooB._jwPA5dLVOyy8KYw7u3QQntWjsYH.MoveNext() --- End of stack trace from previous location where exception was thrown --- at System.Runtime.CompilerServices.TaskAwaiter.ThrowForNonSuccess(Task task) at System.Runtime.CompilerServices.TaskAwaiter.HandleNonSuccessAndDebuggerNotification(Task task) at System.Runtime.CompilerServices.TaskAwaiter.ValidateEnd(Task task) at _ONL59ErIAD4BWw6Qc2htQIbeooB._MaJ2GsSOsVTLmRQPDrc2TSFLJ9A.MoveNext() Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 I think there is a bypass for that. It will "brick" the tcm but it will recover just fine. I think we allow editing the part number on 3.00 also (there is no good reason to do this except for what we are trying here) If you do recovery mode flash with the ZF without licensing the file it should prompt to auromeege the serial. I think it will slip the part number and go on. Quote
Bill Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 18 minutes ago, Roland@pcmtec said: I think there is a bypass for that. It will "brick" the tcm but it will recover just fine. I think we allow editing the part number on 3.00 also (there is no good reason to do this except forehat we are trying here) I'm unable to edit the TCM part number in 2.11 & 3.0. Trying yes as per below just results in an error. I'm happy to bench test using the TCM I have here if you want to provide a "Test Version" that allows editing the part number. The BF TCM I'm using for testing has a broken pin & has been flashed a heap of times. Lost communication & recovered so I'm not too concerned. This would tell us if changing to a FG calibration will reset adaptations. I have tried setting ZF03182 to 0 in using a Territory 7R29 calibration & flashing over a BF 5R29 calibration with no change to adaptations. They use the same TCM part number Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 Attach your file here and I will give it a go. Quote
Bill Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, Roland@pcmtec said: Attach your file here and I will give it a go. 8R29-7J105-DF_TCM_Test.tec Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 Just the calibration which causes the OS to freak out and go into bootloader mode (due to OS and Cal mismatch). Usually this corrupts the KAM as different operating systems align the KAM memory differently, then after recovery the KAM is reset (this happens in the new Ford PCMs). This is a hacky way to do it but it might work. 8 hours ago, Mick said: No chance of an issue by just flashing it in? Obviously not going to try to use it to run the car I don't like to give guarantees, but back in the day we allowed it (not on purpose) and it was always recoverable. Worst case the whole OS/Cal can be recovered via KLine and one of the guys with the ZF flashing software. Quote
Mick Posted December 12, 2022 Author Posted December 12, 2022 I'm getting worried to try to flash this at home in my driveway in case it leaves me stranded. But if I get game is it just a matter of bringing up a licenced BF tune that I have and then when flashing it in, just write to the TCM? Leave the ECU alone? If I get any warnings, do I just ignore them? Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 Just now, Mick said: But if I get game is it just a matter of bringing up a licenced BF tune that I have and then when flashing it in, just write to the TCM? Leave the ECU alone? If I get any warnings, do I just ignore them? Yes just doing a recovery write should fix anything. Quote
Mick Posted December 12, 2022 Author Posted December 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Roland@pcmtec said: Yes just doing a recovery write should fix anything. thank you Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 @Billthat file you attached is that with the serial of the TCM you are trying to flashing? If not can you send the licensed TCM file you are using currently in the bench PCM and I'll make a file with the wrong calibration in it but the same serial, that is all you really need to do to make it flash. Quote
Mick Posted December 12, 2022 Author Posted December 12, 2022 I just attempted to flash a BF ZF file that I have that is licensed to another car into my FG Mk2 I get the same warnings as Bill Quote
Bill Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 28 minutes ago, Roland@pcmtec said: @Billthat file you attached is that with the serial of the TCM you are trying to flashing? If not can you send the licensed TCM file you are using currently in the bench PCM and I'll make a file with the wrong calibration in it but the same serial, that is all you really need to do to make it flash. @Roland@pcmtec the previous file is unlicenced but is the FG one we want to change the part number on & try. Here's a licenced BF file with serial 5R29-7J105-DG.tec Quote
Bill Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Mick said: I just attempted to flash a BF ZF file that I have that is licensed to another car into my FG Mk2 I get the same warnings as Bill @Mick if you're not in a rush & can hold off until I get the file back from Roland, I'll test flashing it on the TCM I have here. If something goes wrong on the bench, it won't be as big an issue Edited December 12, 2022 by Bill Quote
Mick Posted December 12, 2022 Author Posted December 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, Bill said: @Mick if you're not in a rush & can hold off until I get the file back from Roland, I'll test flashing it on the TCM I have here. If something goes wrong on the bench, it won't be as big an issue probably a good idea, no use both of us doing the same thing at the same time Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 8R29-7J105-DF_TCM_with BF serial.tec Try this. You'll need to license it as well. Enable recovery mode when flashing and it should stop the warning about mismatched OS etc. Note that I had to do this manually, the editor normally blocks you from merging the serial in (for good reason). The trans should go into limp mode once that file is in, I'd power cycle everything, then put the correct file back in using recovery mode and then check the adaption values. Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 I did a bit of search and I reckon the following scalars might reset the learned data ZF02841 Prevent the deleting of the Adaptation data by the initial start (ON=1, OFF=0) ZF02859 Switch for activation of the EEPROM data handling EE_SPIEGEL 0=OFF, 1=ONLY START, 2=ON These likely are how fast it can learn ZF01162 Maximum permisisible change of the adaption value (mbar) ZF01162 Maximum permisisible change of the adaption value (timer) TSF I think is time ZF03011 Lower limit of TSF adaptation value for the clutch 0=A....4=E ZF03010 Upper limit of TSF adaptation value for the clutch 0=A....4=E PF I believe is pressure ZF02971 Upper limit of PF Adaptation value for the clutch 0=A ... 4=E ZF02972 Lower limit of PF Adaptation value for the clutch 0=A ... 4=E ZF02886 Switch for activating/deactivating the shift pressure adaptation, valid for CRC adaptation 0=Off, 1=On, 2=On+Initialization ZF02863 Switch to activate/deactivate the flare adaptation 0=Off, 1=On, 2=On+Initialization ZF02842 Switch to enable modification of shift adaptation depending upon stroke adaptation Then there are all of these They use adaptation and adaption interchangeably. Loads of stuff you could play with here. Quote
Bill Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said: 8R29-7J105-DF_TCM_with BF serial.tec 249.17 kB · 1 download Try this. You'll need to license it as well. Enable recovery mode when flashing and it should stop the warning about mismatched OS etc. Note that I had to do this manually, the editor normally blocks you from merging the serial in (for good reason). The trans should go into limp mode once that file is in, I'd power cycle everything, then put the correct file back in using recovery mode and then check the adaption values. Erased TCM Flash & failed to write. It successfully wrote back the original BF file & reads ok but there are no changes to adaptation values Quote
Puffwagon Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 42 minutes ago, Roland@pcmtec said: ZF02859 Stock value is 2. I set it to 0, flashed the TCM and adapts had returned to 0. I started the car and adapts stayed at 0. I then returned ZF02859 to 2, flashed the TCM, started the car and adapts stayed at 0. Went for a quick drive, not enough to get it up to temp and the adapts were still at 0 went I got home. Built trans, not much wear, only drove it gently cos built motor running from cold, trans didn't feel much different. I'll take it for a longer drive later and see what happens. 1 1 Quote
hjtrbo Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) If you have a trans cooler without a thermostat there is a scalar that can be lowered to enable adapts at a lower temperature. I'm away from my pc to get you the scalar ID. edit: ID ZF00027 Edited December 13, 2022 by hjtrbo 1 Quote
Mick Posted December 13, 2022 Author Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Roland@pcmtec said: I did a bit of search and I reckon the following scalars might reset the learned data ZF02859 Switch for activation of the EEPROM data handling EE_SPIEGEL 0=OFF, 1=ONLY START, 2=ON 40 minutes ago, Puffwagon said: Stock value is 2. I set it to 0, flashed the TCM and adapts had returned to 0. I started the car and adapts stayed at 0. I then returned ZF02859 to 2, flashed the TCM, started the car and adapts stayed at 0. . This cleared my Adaptions as well, FG MK2 Thank you very much Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 27 minutes ago, hjtrbo said: If you have a trans cooler without a thermostat there is a scalar that can be lowered to enable adapts at a lower temperature. I'm away from my pc to get you the scalar ID. edit: ID ZF00027 Yes this must be done. This was a great find by hjtrbo. There are a few other scalers as well that set other ranges, however I assume they are there for good reason. The learning algorithm will expect temperatures to be within a certain spec. I suspect you could lower it to say 10 just as a test though. 50 minutes ago, Puffwagon said: Stock value is 2. I set it to 0, flashed the TCM and adapts had returned to 0. I started the car and adapts stayed at 0. I then returned ZF02859 to 2, flashed the TCM, started the car and adapts stayed at 0. Went for a quick drive, not enough to get it up to temp and the adapts were still at 0 went I got home. Built trans, not much wear, only drove it gently cos built motor running from cold, trans didn't feel much different. I'll take it for a longer drive later and see what happens. Absolutely brilliant work guys! Let us know how long it takes to re-learn with the temperature threshold set lower. Quote
Puffwagon Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 I knew about the adapt range temp beforehand from a previous conversation with hjrturbo. I checked the adapt temps yesterday, it is between 60C and 90C, my trans sits around 80 when warmed up. I just finished up a 26km drive with mixed driving, the E clutch adapt went to -46, the rest stayed at 0. Before the drive they were as below; A= 330 B= 60 C= -197 D= 148 E= 107 1 Quote
Puffwagon Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 The E clutch adapt changed at 750 seconds into the drive Quote
Kirby@PCMTec Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Puffwagon said: The E clutch adapt changed at 750 seconds into the drive And this has survived a power cycle with ZF02859 set to 2? Would be interested to know how much time/driving is required to see other values start to populate. Quote
Puffwagon Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 Yes it has. I just reflashed the PCM and TCM cos I had an update for my engine tune. Apart from being a dumbass and turning the key off when the TCM started writing, causing me to use recovery mode, it all fixed up and the E clutch still has the negative value there. Something that is likely as important in this process is the adapt times that are there. Mine were different previously, went to 0 with the reset and has a number on only the B clutch now. I'm going for a several hundred km drive this weekend so will have some data after that. Quote
Puffwagon Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 Worth a mention, before my trans was rebuilt with many an aftermarket part, it was stock and survived over 900awhp for months. It did slip every now and then and eventually broke the input shaft. When it was rebuilt I only got a few weeks of driving on it before an engine failure. Now it has only had a couple thousand km on it so the previously mentioned numbers are likely remnants from the stock box. Anyhow I'll update the numbers over time so we can see what it does. Quote
Kirby@PCMTec Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 Just now, Puffwagon said: Worth a mention, before my trans was rebuilt with many an aftermarket part, it was stock and survived over 900awhp for months. It did slip every now and then and eventually broke the input shaft. When it was rebuilt I only got a few weeks of driving on it before an engine failure. Now it has only had a couple thousand km on it so the previously mentioned numbers are likely remnants from the stock box. Anyhow I'll update the numbers over time so we can see what it does. The real testament will be getting to a stable adaptation value (over say 100km) then resetting it again, and doing a similar cycle and seeing if you adapt to similar numbers again... Quote
Puffwagon Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 I can try that. There are various methods used to relearn a zf box. I'll give them a try over the coming weeks. Schnellefullzeit means fast fill time or quick fill time. This is the other thing that reset.ZF_Adaptation procedure.pdf Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 @Kirby@PCMTec is going to work on giving those parameters some decent names and descriptions shortly as well. 2 1 Quote
hjtrbo Posted December 13, 2022 Posted December 13, 2022 Having a read of the adaption procedures. Do we know what software version we are? Stuck on night shift so cant go through the tune. Software P says 6HP19 which leaves us 19.02 (A), 19.04 (N), 19.11 (T) Quote
hjtrbo Posted December 14, 2022 Posted December 14, 2022 I don't think this makes it any clearer as to which adapt procedure to use. FG-X is the only one that lines up... FG Mk1 AR29-7J105-GB Software Version 24.09 FG-X ER2G-7J105 Software Version 19.11 BF F6 5R29-7J105-DG Software Version 17.13 Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 14, 2022 Posted December 14, 2022 Try them all! You could also contact ZF directly as well. They might share it with you (the adaption procedure) Quote
Kirby@PCMTec Posted December 14, 2022 Posted December 14, 2022 Hey Guys, As I go through renaming and brushing up my technical German, here are the parameters that are particularly related to "Fußpunktadaption" (e.g. base adaptation). Temperature: Upper - ZF00026 Lower - ZF00027 Current - (Fuß > Base) - so Base current, TID: 001022 Upper - ZF00326 Lower - ZF00327 ZF01002 - Adaptable Base CurrentTorque: Upper - ZF02213 Lower - ZF02214TCC/Turbine Speed: Upper - ZF02441 Lower - ZF02442 RPM: ZF03892 - Maximum permissible control deviationTime parameters of interest: ZF03229 - Time in which to adapt (possible drive time, or limit of running adaption) ZF03230 - Preparation time for soothing (possible hysteresis or settling time) ZF03231 - Time for switching on the switch point (possible drive time?) ZF03113 - Load free must be passed (possible timer for an idle time before/after adaption) TID of interest: TID002456 - Status value of the base point adaptation (so maybe a status flag of adapted/not adapted) TID000916 - Flag of the setpoint being applied (I think this might be a flag for "adaption in progress") TID002212 - Adaption Time Counter (possible relation to the timers above) TID002481 - counter adaptations (possible number of adaptation cycles performed) TID002482 - counter TCC activations For guys playing around with this, might be worth having a look at some of these TIDs and see if we can gleam anything. 4 2 Quote
Bill Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 On 12/13/2022 at 7:00 PM, hjtrbo said: Having a read of the adaption procedures. Do we know what software version we are? Stuck on night shift so cant go through the tune. Software P says 6HP19 which leaves us 19.02 (A), 19.04 (N), 19.11 (T) @hjtrbo Ford TCM Calibration files say 19.04.0 1 1 Quote
hjtrbo Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 7 minutes ago, Bill said: @hjtrbo Ford TCM Calibration files say 19.04.0 Ooh, like it very much. Cheers 🤙 Quote
Puffwagon Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 Thanks for that Bill, I'll give it a whirl after Xmas Quote
Bill Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 Some interesting reading in the AudiWorld forum for interpreting ZF6HP19 adaptation values. @hjtrbo @Puffwagon while you're testing, it would be good to find out if the items in the table below are some of the TID's of interest that @Kirby@PCMTec posted previouslyInterpreting tiptronic adaptation values - what is your gearbox telling you? - Page 3 - AudiWorld Forums On 12/14/2022 at 2:01 PM, Kirby@PCMTec said: TID of interest: TID002456 - Status value of the base point adaptation (so maybe a status flag of adapted/not adapted) TID000916 - Flag of the setpoint being applied (I think this might be a flag for "adaption in progress") TID002212 - Adaption Time Counter (possible relation to the timers above) TID002481 - counter adaptations (possible number of adaptation cycles performed)TID002482 - counter TCC activations Quote
Bill Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 There are some links in the AudiWorld forum thread to other forums with some more info Quote
Puffwagon Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 I have a modified factory converter to suit the 6r80 input shaft and has a much higher stall speed than stock. Because of this and also the amount of power the engine makes I run the converter fully unlocked as much as the tune will allow. I don't want to smoke the converter clutch either. With that in mind I remember that the stock TC settings have the converter lock up a lot of the time and I think this might have some effect on the relearn. It might be worth running the stock TC settings for the relearn process, then swap to tuned TC settings afterwards. Quote
Bill Posted December 23, 2022 Posted December 23, 2022 32 minutes ago, Puffwagon said: I have a modified factory converter to suit the 6r80 input shaft and has a much higher stall speed than stock. Because of this and also the amount of power the engine makes I run the converter fully unlocked as much as the tune will allow. I don't want to smoke the converter clutch either. With that in mind I remember that the stock TC settings have the converter lock up a lot of the time and I think this might have some effect on the relearn. It might be worth running the stock TC settings for the relearn process, then swap to tuned TC settings afterwards. It would be interesting to see what differences it makes doing a relearn with stock settings & then with tuned settings. The higher stall might learn poorly with stock settings & may learn better with the tuned settings. It might also be perfectly fine. It'll be great to hear how it all goes Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted December 23, 2022 Posted December 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Puffwagon said: I have a modified factory converter to suit the 6r80 input shaft and has a much higher stall speed than stock. Because of this and also the amount of power the engine makes I run the converter fully unlocked as much as the tune will allow. I don't want to smoke the converter clutch either. With that in mind I remember that the stock TC settings have the converter lock up a lot of the time and I think this might have some effect on the relearn. It might be worth running the stock TC settings for the relearn process, then swap to tuned TC settings afterwards. Just for reference did you have to change any scalars to prevent a limp mode due to excessive torque converter slip? I had a look for another customer and the scalars that looked like they would assist with allowing a high slip ratio were the following (don't have the descriptions handy). ZF20435 ZF04082 ZF04084 Quote
Puffwagon Posted December 23, 2022 Posted December 23, 2022 Mine doesn't go into limp mode from the converter slip. The only time I had it go into limp mode was making the maximum shift time too short. Halving the numbers seems to work fine, having less than 800ms in the 10C cell you're nearly guaranteed it'll go into limp mode after a short amount of time. Quote
Bill Posted May 30 Posted May 30 (edited) On 12/22/2022 at 8:19 PM, Bill said: Some interesting reading in the AudiWorld forum for interpreting ZF6HP19 adaptation values. @hjtrbo @Puffwagon while you're testing, it would be good to find out if the items in the table below are some of the TID's of interest that @Kirby@PCMTec posted previously Interpreting tiptronic adaptation values - what is your gearbox telling you? - Page 3 - AudiWorld Forums I've created a ZF6 adaptations logging template for anyone who wants it. I used the information from my previous post to look for the german equivalent in PCMtec & have edited the german logging name to match what google translate has provided & it looks to be equivalent to the Audi image. @Kirby@PCMTec @Roland@pcmtec are you able to confirm the the sequential TID numbers below are in order of cluth A, B, C, D & E? If all the TID's are in the correct order, can you add a default ZF6 adaptations.tlo file to the logging layouts with updated names to include A, B, C, D ,E? If you want to reset adaptations, follow what @Puffwagon has done for ZF02859. Stock value is 2, set ZF02859 to 0 & flash the TCM & adapts change to 0. Then return ZF02859 to 2 & flash the TCM. Adaptations will all be zero. Logging names displayed in my logging template. ZF Adaptation Logger by Bill.tlo @Mick do you still have the logging template where you identified & renamed each of the adaptations in your post? On 12/13/2022 at 2:36 PM, Mick said: This cleared my Adaptions as well, FG MK2 Thank you very much Edited May 30 by Bill Quote
hjtrbo Posted May 31 Posted May 31 I dug this up from my old template archives. TID000596,ADAPT PRESS CLUTCH A,Adaptation Memory Filling Pressure Clutch A TID000597,ADAPT PRESS CLUTCH B,Adaptation Memory Filling Pressure Clutch B TID000598,ADAPT PRESS CLUTCH C,Adaptation Memory Filling Pressure Clutch C TID000599,ADAPT PRESS CLUTCH D,Adaptation Memory Filling Pressure Clutch D TID000600,ADAPT PRESS CLUTCH E,Adaptation Memory Filling Pressure Clutch E TID000602,ADAPT TIME CLUTCH A,Adaptation Memory Fast Filling Time Clutch A TID000603,ADAPT TIME CLUTCH B,Adaptation Memory Fast Filling Time Clutch B TID000604,ADAPT TIME CLUTCH C,Adaptation Memory Fast Filling Time Clutch C TID000605,ADAPT TIME CLUTCH D,Adaptation Memory Fast Filling Time Clutch D TID000606,ADAPT TIME CLUTCH E,Adaptation Memory Fast Filling Time Clutch E Quote
Bill Posted June 2 Posted June 2 On 5/31/2025 at 5:45 PM, hjtrbo said: I dug this up from my old template archives. TID000596,ADAPT PRESS CLUTCH A,Adaptation Memory Filling Pressure Clutch A TID000597,ADAPT PRESS CLUTCH B,Adaptation Memory Filling Pressure Clutch B TID000598,ADAPT PRESS CLUTCH C,Adaptation Memory Filling Pressure Clutch C TID000599,ADAPT PRESS CLUTCH D,Adaptation Memory Filling Pressure Clutch D TID000600,ADAPT PRESS CLUTCH E,Adaptation Memory Filling Pressure Clutch E TID000602,ADAPT TIME CLUTCH A,Adaptation Memory Fast Filling Time Clutch A TID000603,ADAPT TIME CLUTCH B,Adaptation Memory Fast Filling Time Clutch B TID000604,ADAPT TIME CLUTCH C,Adaptation Memory Fast Filling Time Clutch C TID000605,ADAPT TIME CLUTCH D,Adaptation Memory Fast Filling Time Clutch D TID000606,ADAPT TIME CLUTCH E,Adaptation Memory Fast Filling Time Clutch E Thanks @hjtrbo you've confirmed what I was thinking for TID sequential number relates to A-E clutches sequentially Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted June 3 Posted June 3 I will import this into the datalogger. It looks like it was prepared and not deployed. Thank you for taking the time to do so. edit: These appear to have been already named in 3.10, I will get them added to 2.11 for pro and workshop users. Quote
Roland@pcmtec Posted June 3 Posted June 3 These should all be updated and renamed now in 2.11 professional and 2.11 workshop edition. Quote
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