murphsdiesel Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 ok so i have done a converson to my 105 landcruiser and put an fg na engine in it with zf auto and have turbo charged it, i have used an fg intake manifold, f6 injectors, had the inlet boost sensor fitted and boost control solenoid wired in, all wiring was done professionally engine starts and runs no issue. when i purchased the engine and trans it had no ecu at all, so i purchased what i was told was an fg xr6 turbo computer and engine/ trans loom, i sourced the rest of the wrining from a scrapped fg. also running canbarra interface for speedo etc now i have just downloaded the pcm and tcm file on pcmtec today and have noticed the strategy is HAEE3A4 / A0AE which from my research is a non turbo fg euro4 sedan, so possibly has it been changed to a na+t parameters? now my next question is because i dont have a tear tag or code for the original engine zf configuration how do i program the tcm to suit the na+t or if it is not actually a xr6 turbo factory but is off an fg na it may drive? i have read and read and read on this on this forum i thought i had a good understanding until i actually started today thanks for any help guys cheers landbarra.tec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjtrbo Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 What is the part number of the PCM? APS-234? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 Get brett at custom machine works to set you up with a canned tune. Way too many unanswered questions, not to mention assuming everything is wired up electrically correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjtrbo Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 I checked out his page. Damn, they do some bloody nice work. I liked that they are working with the CanBarra crew to integrate the multi-tune into the Landcruisers. Can't argue with the price for the standalone ECU service. FG turbo or NA ecu modification.... - Custom Machine Works | Facebook 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 18 hours ago, murphsdiesel said: now i have just downloaded the pcm and tcm file on pcmtec today and have noticed the strategy is HAEE3A4 / A0AE which from my research is a non turbo fg euro4 sedan, so possibly has it been changed to a na+t parameters? Based on the strategy / teartag you've provided, I'd guess it's a na APS-231 pcm so won't control boost. Unfortunately, I regularly see na+t pcm's advertised as turbo pcms & usually make a comment & suggest the add be edited so as not to deceive buyers. If you want to have FG factory boost control, which in my opinion is the best option, you'll need to source an APS-234 pcm. Others have mentioned Brett at Custom Machine Works. If you're lucky, he may have a FG turbo pcm he can provide & advise what the matching tcm strategy is so you can reprogram the na tcm to match. 18 hours ago, murphsdiesel said: now my next question is because i dont have a tear tag or code for the original engine zf configuration how do i program the tcm to suit the na+t or if it is not actually a xr6 turbo factory but is off an fg na it may drive? There's no listing against HAEE3A4 / A0AE for the TCM strategy but ZF03987 and auF1692 match. You might be lucky enough for it to drive without having a TCM mismatch but there's still more work to be done for it to run as a na+t. Again, another reason to source an APS-234 pcm & sell it as a na pcm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 6 hours ago, hjtrbo said: I checked out his page. Damn, they do some bloody nice work. I liked that they are working with the CanBarra crew to integrate the multi-tune into the Landcruisers. Can't argue with the price for the standalone ECU service. FG turbo or NA ecu modification.... - Custom Machine Works | Facebook Can't argue with you there, he's a guru when it comes to these Barra swaps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat111 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 i can highly recommend brett from custom machine works. his done a fair few NA+T tunes from my facebook group, an happy customers all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphsdiesel Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 thanks guys ill suss it out tomorrow at work and see what i come up with as pcm part number appreciate all the input.. if i have to ill call brett and see if he has a pcm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjtrbo Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 Have you got a licensed version of pcmtec on your laptop? The Professional version will get you a long way. Nothing stopping you from doing it yourself. Public knowledge is scarce for some reason but remember, you're not reinventing wheel. Infact, if you do go down the road of doing it yourself, please do share what you found. Allot your conversion, all that comes to mind is a pats delete and a vss speed source change. Everything else would be common sense; garbage in = garbage out. APS-234 is gold standard. That said, you still can use an external boost controller with APS-231, but not the ideal solution. Nothing to worry about with a PCM TCM mismatch, that is easy fixed without even trying. I've found so long as PCM is APS-234 and TCM OSID is the same (2008-2014 or there abouts) I've found any cal can be written to the TCM and all is required is a calibration level scalar change on the PCM side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerTurbo Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 15 hours ago, hjtrbo said: Nothing to worry about with a PCM TCM mismatch, that is easy fixed without even trying. I've found so long as PCM is APS-234 and TCM OSID is the same (2008-2014 or there abouts) I've found any cal can be written to the TCM and all is required is a calibration level scalar change on the PCM side. I have bought a ft turbo zf auto, mated to a fg na+t motor for my patrol. I havent even got around to getting wiring or a pcm sorted. do you think ill need a APS 234 or will a 231 work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjtrbo Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 231 should work as should 222 for the V8's. I just have experience with 234 so can state some things more confidently. The TCM's all have the same OSID for FG & FG2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 1 minute ago, BeerTurbo said: I have bought a ft turbo zf auto, mated to a fg na+t motor for my patrol. I havent even got around to getting wiring or a pcm sorted. do you think ill need a APS 234 or will a 231 work? APS-234 is the best option so you have factory boost control. If you're using the APS-231 & turbo ZF6, starting with a turbo pcm/tcm strategy & setting it up with external boost control would be the less desirable method but an option that should also work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerTurbo Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Bill said: APS-234 is the best option so you have factory boost control. If you're using the APS-231 & turbo ZF6, starting with a turbo pcm/tcm strategy & setting it up with external boost control would be the less desirable method but an option that should also work yeah its just one of those things. Use a $50 PCM or a $550 + PCM with awesome boost control. I have a factory turbo territory and the boost control is nice, but i also run two na+t cars with more manual boost controls and they function just fine. To the point where i actually have a ba turbo 6 speed ecu to replace the one in the drift ute, for nearly 2 years but haven't bothered because it works just fine as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 18 minutes ago, BeerTurbo said: yeah its just one of those things. Use a $50 PCM or a $550 + PCM with awesome boost control. I have a factory turbo territory and the boost control is nice, but i also run two na+t cars with more manual boost controls and they function just fine. To the point where i actually have a ba turbo 6 speed ecu to replace the one in the drift ute, for nearly 2 years but haven't bothered because it works just fine as is. Yep, where you've already got the external controller setup & it's working fine, then why bother. If you're starting from scratch & have to buy a na pcm & external controller then it pays to weigh up both options & goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerTurbo Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Bill said: Yep, where you've already got the external controller setup & it's working fine, then why bother. If you're starting from scratch & have to buy a na pcm & external controller then it pays to weigh up both options & goals. there is an amount im ready to spend on a turbo pcm, but its just not what ive found them for. being na+t it would be nice to use the functions of the boost control to ramp in after peak torque. we will see, still a few other things to buy before i absolutely need the pcm. so maybe one will popup locally in that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 11 minutes ago, BeerTurbo said: there is an amount im ready to spend on a turbo pcm, but its just not what ive found them for. we will see, still a few other things to buy before i absolutely need the pcm. so maybe one will popup locally in that time. Ocassionally, you'll see one advertised for a reasonable price but they're never local, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphsdiesel Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 20 hours ago, hjtrbo said: Have you got a licensed version of pcmtec on your laptop? The Professional version will get you a long way. Nothing stopping you from doing it yourself. Public knowledge is scarce for some reason but remember, you're not reinventing wheel. Infact, if you do go down the road of doing it yourself, please do share what you found. Allot your conversion, all that comes to mind is a pats delete and a vss speed source change. Everything else would be common sense; garbage in = garbage out. APS-234 is gold standard. That said, you still can use an external boost controller with APS-231, but not the ideal solution. Nothing to worry about with a PCM TCM mismatch, that is easy fixed without even trying. I've found so long as PCM is APS-234 and TCM OSID is the same (2008-2014 or there abouts) I've found any cal can be written to the TCM and all is required is a calibration level scalar change on the PCM side. i have pcmtec professional so i can play around in there and learn what i can and cant do to it. i had the wiring loom all done professionally, it came back basically plug and play into my cruiser, all the gauges work, can barra works it shows what gear im in on the lcd screen weather that actually means anything. pats has been disabled along with a few others that dont seem to be needed, the engine starts and runs quiet well. i was doing some digging in the pcm and i found it has the scalers for tubo wastegate solenoid and turbo logic also boost etc, if it was a non turbo ecm would i be seeing them in pcmtec? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerTurbo Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, murphsdiesel said: i have pcmtec professional so i can play around in there and learn what i can and cant do to it. i had the wiring loom all done professionally, it came back basically plug and play into my cruiser, all the gauges work, can barra works it shows what gear im in on the lcd screen weather that actually means anything. pats has been disabled along with a few others that dont seem to be needed, the engine starts and runs quiet well. i was doing some digging in the pcm and i found it has the scalers for tubo wastegate solenoid and turbo logic also boost etc, if it was a non turbo ecm would i be seeing them in pcmtec? Yes. it will have the logic/software for turbo. just might no use them. things like the boost controller can be ignored as it does not have the hardware to control it. but it may still reference the desired boost table, so it knows when to do overboost protection - things like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphsdiesel Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 9 minutes ago, BeerTurbo said: Yes. it will have the logic/software for turbo. just might no use them. things like the boost controller can be ignored as it does not have the hardware to control it. but it may still reference the desired boost table, so it knows when to do overboost protection - things like that. ok so correct me if im wrong but basically if i have no voltage at my wastegate/boost control solenoid its not using it and then that confirms i dont have the 234 pcm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerTurbo Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, murphsdiesel said: ok so correct me if im wrong but basically if i have no voltage at my wastegate/boost control solenoid its not using it and then that confirms i dont have the 234 pcm Im not sure. You might need to make the entire field 0 or 1 then test voltage output Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphsdiesel Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, BeerTurbo said: Im not sure. You might need to make the entire field 0 or 1 then test voltage output something to try i guess i will have a crack monday and see what i find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 Here's a tiny bit of help, the stock turbo boost control solenoid is open when powered off, aka gate pressure. You won't see a signal from it until the pcm sees underboost conditions or boost control conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphsdiesel Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 21 minutes ago, Puffwagon said: Here's a tiny bit of help, the stock turbo boost control solenoid is open when powered off, aka gate pressure. You won't see a signal from it until the pcm sees underboost conditions or boost control conditions. so at a stretch if set desired boost to 0 in all tables that apply theoretically it would power at all times if it was able to be controlled thru my pcm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerTurbo Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 Just now, murphsdiesel said: so at a stretch if set desired boost to 0 in all tables that apply theoretically it would power at all times if it was able to be controlled thru my pcm it will either be 0 or 1 for full. i suspect 1. dont forget to change the throttle position to boost to cause thats afect the desire wg pressure table Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 No that's the opposite of how it works. Voltage is only there when asking for boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphsdiesel Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, Puffwagon said: No that's the opposite of how it works. Voltage is only there when asking for boost. ah yes i got my wires crossed been a long day. that makes sense they bleed to atmosphere until desired level is reached Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphsdiesel Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 ok so here maybe another quick test im might go try tomorrow. but i found auF2216 P0243 - Switch - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid A Malfunction shows - no error, now if i change that to mil light and under correct conditions it will not throw a light until i disconnect it and repeat the same conditions. or i could bridge the wires to simulate a failed solenoid and that should also log the mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffwagon Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 I wouldn't connect the wires and power it up, that is a sure way to burn something out. You can stall it up in the driveway and see if it reads any voltage. The tune should be at 100% wgdc when performing that test. You can log the wgdc in the datalogger. You can also drive the thing and see if changing the boost settings actually does anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphsdiesel Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 17 minutes ago, Puffwagon said: I wouldn't connect the wires and power it up, that is a sure way to burn something out. You can stall it up in the driveway and see if it reads any voltage. The tune should be at 100% wgdc when performing that test. You can log the wgdc in the datalogger. You can also drive the thing and see if changing the boost settings actually does anything. i wish it was at the point i could drive it, its close nut not just yet, i, probably overthinking this issue at this point in the build to be homest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 You can enable dyno mode and set the wastegate output permanently to a number for testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakka351 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 "LandBarra". That is genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakka351 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 On 10/21/2022 at 1:32 PM, Bill said: Based on the strategy / teartag you've provided, I'd guess it's a na APS-231 pcm so won't control boost. Unfortunately, I regularly see na+t pcm's advertised as turbo pcms & usually make a comment & suggest the add be edited so as not to deceive buyers. If you want to have FG factory boost control, which in my opinion is the best option, you'll need to source an APS-234 pcm. Others have mentioned Brett at Custom Machine Works. If you're lucky, he may have a FG turbo pcm he can provide & advise what the matching tcm strategy is so you can reprogram the na tcm to match. There's no listing against HAEE3A4 / A0AE for the TCM strategy but ZF03987 and auF1692 match. You might be lucky enough for it to drive without having a TCM mismatch but there's still more work to be done for it to run as a na+t. Again, another reason to source an APS-234 pcm & sell it as a na pcm I am again wondering whether configuring what the PCM outputs on 0x623, 0x640 & 0x650 CAN ids is enough to 'trick" a TCM or ABS module into functioning with a different strategy/config. But I have not a lot of experience with the automatics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphsdiesel Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 13 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said: You can enable dyno mode and set the wastegate output permanently to a number for testing. how does one enable dyno mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakka351 Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 These parameters may be related, but I don't know much more about how they would be used. ID Name Value Stock Units Description auF12405 CUT CAL Switch 0 0 Calibration switch enables special injector cutoff for dyno procedure. ID Name Value Stock Units Description auF16504 Wastegate Duty Cycle Test: Wastegate Duty cycle test threshold 0 0 Wastegate Dyno Open Loop Dutycycle ID Name Value Stock Units Description auF0298 Turbo Dyno test Desired Boost 0 0 Boost Pressure to be used on Dyno test 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland@pcmtec Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 If you set auF16504 and auF0298 it will lock the desired boost and wastegate duty cycle at the values entered under all circumstances. Great for testing a wastegate. Make sure you don't leave it enabled! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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