Fuel overrun

[richardpalinkas]

For novalty purposes only, flames out of the exhaust on decel, how does one achieve this? I understand you need excess fueling in the exhaust, id assume adjust dfco conditions and possibly retard timing on decel? Am i thinking along the right lines? 

[Roland@pcmtec]

Disabling dfco (eg set the delay time to several minutes), setting deaccel timing to 0 degrees and disabling closed loop O2 sensor at all loads above x rpm will make for some extremely loud cat destroying backfires. If you mess with commanded fuel table to make it richer at no throttle I imagine you could get flames. 

Beware of damage to your turbo, mufflers and cat though. Wouldn't do this on the street as the backfires will be loud enough to hurt people's ears. 

[richardpalinkas]

Perfect. Thats all i needed to know. Thankyou

[richardpalinkas]

So ive been mucking around with these settings the last few nights, but have not been able to achieve any off throttle flames on sudden lift off.

What i have tried is the following

Disable all dfco settings

Disable all torque management regarding tipout and dfco, number 7 and 16 i believe

Increase lambda at 0% throttle above 3500rpm

Retard timing above 3500rpm to -5, although this created a lot of bangs and pops, but no flames

Tried enabling cat overtemp protection too to no avail

Is there any other advice someone can lead me to try to get something? Il link a video of what im trying to get.

 

Mods are gtx3582, all supporting mods on 98.

 

Thanks guys

 

[Roland@pcmtec]

Do you have a cat? 

[richardpalinkas]

I do, but have seen flames once before on the dyno. And have seen lots of cars with cats blowing flames too, although different brand exhausts. Mines a nizpro 4 inch

[Roland@pcmtec]

I suspect you will reach your goal much quicker with out one. 

You said you raised the lambda at 0% throttle? You want to lower it, lower numbers are richer. If you set it to something stupid like 0.5 it should do something! 

Beware of damage to your spark plugs/cat/exhaust system though. 

Please don't take this as advice though, you could damage something. 

[richardpalinkas]

I set it to 0.6 in the main lambda table. Still nothing unfortunately.

 

Not a tune i would run all the time, something i would do as a weekend night tune etc lol.

[Loki]

On 3/5/2018 at 6:43 PM, richardpalinkas said:

So ive been mucking around with these settings the last few nights, but have not been able to achieve any off throttle flames on sudden lift off.

What i have tried is the following

Disable all dfco settings      <<---- How do do this?

Disable all torque management regarding tipout and dfco, number 7 and 16 i believe

Increase lambda at 0% throttle above 3500rpm

Retard timing above 3500rpm to -5, although this created a lot of bangs and pops, but no flames    <<------ Where do you make this change? Spark table?

Tried enabling cat overtemp protection too to no avail

Is there any other advice someone can lead me to try to get something? Il link a video of what im trying to get.

 

Mods are gtx3582, all supporting mods on 98.

 

Thanks guys

 

Can you tell me exactly what you did? Like which tables, scalars and such?

[richardpalinkas]

I will check the computer later and let you know. In spark table there is decel spark angle.

[Loki]

1 minute ago, richardpalinkas said:

I will check the computer later and let you know. In spark table there is decel spark angle.

Thank you! ? I had been chasing the pop like those Audi RS when decel. Not the extreme flame just some pop. I have the FGX G6ET. If you can not post the photo of PCMtec edit then please specify the code name like auF0228 for example, etc.... 

If you do not mind please tell me the details of what changes had been made to give the pop sound - in your opinion. I just want some pop and not to upset any other thing like fuel trim, afr, foul plug and such. ?

Kind Regards

[Roland@pcmtec]

Change "Spark angle to use under deceleration conditions" auF0228

If you put 0 degrees timing in 3000 and above you will get VERY LOUD backfires on deacceleration. I found around 10-12 degrees provides a nice crackle without being too obnoxious

[Loki]

1 minute ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

Change "Spark angle to use under deceleration conditions" auF0228

If you put 0 degrees timing in 3000 and above you will get VERY LOUD backfires on deacceleration. I found around 10-12 degrees provides a nice crackle without being too obnoxious

Thanks so much!!!! So we do not touch any fuel table or scalar? ?

[Roland@pcmtec]

You also need to disable DFCO via these scalars. I set auF1265 to 8 seconds so that you only get a fuel cut after extended deceleration (eg coasting down a long hill). You will get more fuel usage doing this though.

[Loki]

1 hour ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

You also need to disable DFCO via these scalars. I set auF1265 to 8 seconds so that you only get a fuel cut after extended deceleration (eg coasting down a long hill). You will get more fuel usage doing this though.

Is it auF12656?    default is 0.0008sec and should be tried with 8 sec?

[Loki]

1 hour ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

You also need to disable DFCO via these scalars. I set auF1265 to 8 seconds so that you only get a fuel cut after extended deceleration (eg coasting down a long hill). You will get more fuel usage doing this though.

I can not find that scalar in my Strategy - FGX G6ET!!!???? lol

[Roland@pcmtec]

Looks like the FG is different. 

Try setting auF1880 and auF1981 to 600 F

or you could try setting auF2485 to 10,000 rpm

[Loki]

On 8/21/2018 at 2:45 PM, Roland@pcmtec said:

Looks like the FG is different. 

Try setting auF1880 and auF1981 to 600 F

or you could try setting auF2485 to 10,000 rpm

I did try auF2485 with 2500rpm and auF0028 with 5 degree at 3000rpm. I reved the car with Park Gear and nothing happens. Does this only burb or pop when you drive? not at Neutral Gear selection?

Any one with FG experience please help. I just want some burb or crackle when decel - not extreme as I do not want to see any damage ?

 

[Roland@pcmtec]

I don't think it works in neutral. You need to be deaccelerating

[richardpalinkas]

I'm sure most tuners don't let their customers cars go out with retarded timing on decel, or running pig rich, but how are most tuners getting big flames like this? 

 

 

[Romulus]

If the torque module switch is turned off during tuning DFCO is disabled. This will allow the injectors to pulse during closed throttle causing the flames out of the exhaust.

[richardpalinkas]

4 hours ago, Romulus said:

If the torque module switch is turned off during tuning DFCO is disabled. This will allow the injectors to pulse during closed throttle causing the flames out of the exhaust.

Do you mean to just disable DFCO completely? I already have dfco disabled but I have not turned off the torque module switch, as in system switches.

[Romulus]

43 minutes ago, richardpalinkas said:

Do you mean to just disable DFCO completely? I already have dfco disabled but I have not turned off the torque module switch, as in system switches.

No. Turning off the torque module switch disables all torque reductions, but also disables DFCO for whatever reason.

[yoda598]

so howd this go? anyone get flames?? doesnt turning torque managment off do some silly stuff??

[Roland@pcmtec]

If you want silly stuff, set your minimum pulsewidth really high and disable DFCO. Car will stall and drive like crap but it will blow flames.

[DanStraffa]

On 2/19/2018 at 9:50 AM, Roland@pcmtec said:

Wouldn't do this on the street as the backfires will be loud enough to hurt people's ears. 

Hahahahaha I did this and can confirm it was loud, then I changed it to little grumbles now 👌

[Puffwagon]

I pulled the cruise control button for rolling antilag while decelerating in my zf trans territory turbo.The decel is stock so I think there's half a second of fuel going through before it cuts off.

Sorry to the lady riding her bike as I went past, it wasn't very loud while the exhaust wasn't hot but after the drive it backfired very loudly.

[Roland@pcmtec]

Its a keybanger on demand. Love it. Add injector slopes/min pulsewidth to the launch tune for actual flames. 

I turned my cat into a ball of molten metal and shot it out the exhaust. Whoops. 

[Puffwagon]

Yep it sure is! It's a pretty cool feature that's for sure.

[BeerTurbo]

On 8/24/2018 at 7:43 AM, Loki said:

I did try auF2485 with 2500rpm and auF0028 with 5 degree at 3000rpm. I reved the car with Park Gear and nothing happens. Does this only burb or pop when you drive? not at Neutral Gear selection?

Any one with FG experience please help. I just want some burb or crackle when decel - not extreme as I do not want to see any damage ?

 

Just on this, in my territory i changed

auF1265  from 1.2s to 8Secionds as suggested

auF0228 to 10 deg from 1500 rpm. (i have used other values with success in my e85 car, but this is 98r road car)

 

on decel the zf just changes gear so nothing really happens.

if you put it in manual gear selection and get a deceleration, it will make some popping noises (mine also still has a high flow cat and two high flow mufflers so they will dull it down)

 

 

 

 

[Rob]

On 10/6/2019 at 6:39 PM, Roland@pcmtec said:

If you want silly stuff, set your minimum pulsewidth really high and disable DFCO. Car will stall and drive like crap but it will blow flames.

I must have set it to high it wouldn’t start could smell the fuel 

[Romulus]

On 12/12/2018 at 6:44 PM, richardpalinkas said:

I'm sure most tuners don't let their customers cars go out with retarded timing on decel, or running pig rich, but how are most tuners getting big flames like this? 

 

 

Like this?

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Romulus

[BeerTurbo]

12 hours ago, Romulus said:

Like this?

 

the responsible adult in me thinks this is stupid.
The rest of me is like, ducken hell I need my territory family car to throw flames like this. 

[Roland@pcmtec]

Something of interest is E85 flames are much more blue/transparent than 98. Backfires are also different sounding and generally quieter on e85 as well. Mainly due to the flame speed and the fact alcohol burns very cleanly.

[Romulus]

Agreed. There's no trickery to this, I dont think I've extended the DFCO enable time. The flames on trailing throttle on started to occur after I changed the mid section of the exhaust post dump pipe to 4", going through 5" cat body, back to single 4" muffler, then into single 3.5" over the diff. Prior to that I had a twin 2.5" cat setup and it wouldn't throw flames during trailing throttle.

[KyleBruh]

On 2/19/2018 at 9:50 AM, Roland@pcmtec said:

Disabling dfco (eg set the delay time to several minutes), setting deaccel timing to 0 degrees and disabling closed loop O2 sensor at all loads above x rpm will make for some extremely loud cat destroying backfires. If you mess with commanded fuel table to make it richer at no throttle I imagine you could get flames. 

Beware of damage to your turbo, mufflers and cat though. Wouldn't do this on the street as the backfires will be loud enough to hurt people's ears. 

Is this accessible in enthusiast?

[Roland@pcmtec]

1 hour ago, KyleBruh said:

Is this accessible in enthusiast?

Download the demo and you can contrast what is and isn't available. 

[KyleBruh]

10 hours ago, Roland@pcmtec said:

Download the demo and you can contrast what is and isn't available. 

Have downloaded the demo bro had a quick look over it last night, need to spend a bit more time on it so i don’t just see it as jibberish at the moment

[Roland@pcmtec]

4 hours ago, KyleBruh said:

Have downloaded the demo bro had a quick look over it last night, need to spend a bit more time on it so i don’t just see it as jibberish at the moment

Have to remember there is 20+ years of engineering from 100s of engineers behind the OEM PCM. It isn't something you can expect to fully grasp in a short period of time.

[abs351]

Hi KyleBruh, go straight professional, well worth it with the rich features of creating stock tunes and compare feature. 1st thing I would be looking at is comparing F6 tune with xr6 turbo tune to gain an understanding of the factory calibrations that are applied.

The tutorials and support are worth considering also.

I started with the application being enthusiast and went professional within weeks.

[KyleBruh]

13 minutes ago, abs351 said:

Hi KyleBruh, go straight professional, well worth it with the rich features of creating stock tunes and compare feature. 1st thing I would be looking at is comparing F6 tune with xr6 turbo tune to gain an understanding of the factory calibrations that are applied.

The tutorials and support are worth considering also.

I started with the application being enthusiast and went professional within weeks.

Cheers bro

[BeerTurbo]

This is not my video

 

https://youtu.be/eYaRumQLv_Y

[BeerTurbo]

DFSO disabled

change fuel map so there is a 0-175 ad counts (i found cruising at 100 i was at around 185 ad counts). then 2500+ edited fuel to be either rich or lean.

change decel map, i ended up with alternating 0/-5. 

open closed loop transition table - changed above 3k to -100. otherwise decel goes open loop straight away.

 

 

learning, 

super rich makes less crackle. i had no crackle at 0.5 and seemingly best crackles around 1.1 fuel settings. I left it for now at 0.96 as i did not want to leave it long term higher than lambada.

Sounds best crackle when you extend decel map right out and make the decel timing alternate.

Flames? no idea my exhaust is downward pointing id have to actually get a camera or second person.

ZF decel in manual mode mostly goes into decel when you back of, i did catch it a couple of times go into tipout tourque so there was no crackle then. during normal drive modes there no crackle... as it wont go into decel map.